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Gutierrez Urges Obama to Let Undocumented Immigrants Stay [W:128]

What about humanitarianism toward the American people? It's disgusting that the bleeding heart Liberals don't give a damn about Americans.

We don't owe the immigrants a damn thing. They and their huge dependent families should all be deported along with all the Mexicans that arrived in the past thirty years.

Americans were never allowed to vote on whether we wanted them here in culture destroying numbers so they're all here illegally. How would we treat anyone else that attempted to colonize our country and destroy our culture?
 
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TeleKat said:

Most immigrants don't work for licensed employers anyway. Many mow lawns, clean houses, or do random Odd-jobs for Cash.
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Your 'defense' for immigration is that they work for Cash...

and so um... pay NO Taxes, Send a good part of that money to Mexico, Enroll their many children in our schools (EXpensive), get on welfare roles/Food stamps/etc, get Free emergency room care....

and ergo, are GIANT Net losers for the economy.

I feel so much better now!
 
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Ray410 said:
What about humanitarianism toward the American people?

We don't owe the immigrants a damn thing. They and their huge dependent families should all be deported along with all the Mexicans that arrived in the past thirty years.

Americans were never allowed to vote on whether we wanted them here in culture destroying numbers so they're all here illegally. How would we treat anyone else that attempted to colonize our country and destroy our culture?
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are you saying we should take all the immigrants and mexicans that came here illegally, pack them into freight cars, create massive trains and send them on a trip to the mexican border?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
are you saying we should take all the immigrants and mexicans that came here illegally, pack them into freight cars, create massive trains and send them on a trip to the mexican border?
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Nonsense. Do keep in mind, however, that they're criminals.
 
TeleKat said:
Ok, so if you won't give them amnesty and you won't even provide a reasonable path to citizenship, what exactly are you going to do with the thousands of immigrants that have already crossed the border and have made lives here? I see no viable way of sending them all home without infringing on the 4th amendment and wasting a ton of taxpayer money. You must also keep in mind that you will end up tearing families apart and damaging the lives of those who aren't "legal" but have lived their whole lives here.
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C'mon. That's been covered a thousand times already here in many recent threads. All the lame excuses and strawmen for allowing them to stay have been covered and countered. I'll admit, the 4th amendment argument is novel but not at all correct and asset forfeiture is a proven tool.

WE won't be tearing anything apart, that is all the illegals' doing. They made this choice. When you go to arrest the criminals, their family suffers.
 
TeleKat said:
Ok, so if you won't give them amnesty and you won't even provide a reasonable path to citizenship, what exactly are you going to do with the thousands of immigrants that have already crossed the border and have made lives here? I see no viable way of sending them all home without infringing on the 4th amendment and wasting a ton of taxpayer money. You must also keep in mind that you will end up tearing families apart and damaging the lives of those who aren't "legal" but have lived their whole lives here.
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Nothing in the Fourth Amendment, nor anywhere else in the Constitution, affirms any right to live here, for anyone who isn't a citizen or a legal immigrant.

And if being sent back to their own country ruins their lives, then so what? It's their own fault for illegally invading our country in the first place. The consequences are on their own heads, not ours.
 
APACHERAT said:
Isn't it a criminal conspiracy to make an agreement with someone like President Obama to break the law by aiding and abetting criminal behavior and refusing to enforce the laws of the land that says illegal aliens should be tried in court for illegal entry into the USA and sentenced to prison or deported ?
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Given that these are not mere criminals, but foreign invaders, I would say that this meets the Constitutional definition of treason.
 
mbig said:
Penalty for hiring an illegal.
Minimums:
First offense: $5,000
Second......... $10,000
Third............ Fine + Jail.

That would go for Individuals too.

Once examples are made, the nonsense will stop.
If 'your' illegal can get a visa to come, OK.
If not, tough luck.
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So your argument is really with the illegal enablers, ...small American business owners and contractors who with a nod and a wink hire under the table.
I tend to agree.
If there are no illegal employers , illegal immigrants will not come.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
are you saying we should take all the immigrants and mexicans that came here illegally, pack them into freight cars, create massive trains and send them on a trip to the mexican border?
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That college education you're getting is finally starting to paying off.
 
Buck Ewer said:
So your argument is really with the illegal enablers, ...small American business owners and contractors who with a nod and a wink hire under the table.
I tend to agree.
If there are no illegal employers , illegal immigrants will not come.
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No, that's unfortunately not true at this point. But seriously, have you seen anyone here arguing that employers be let off the hook in this?
 
Bob Blaylock said:
Nothing in the Fourth Amendment, nor anywhere else in the Constitution, affirms any right to live here, for anyone who isn't a citizen or a legal immigrant.

And if being sent back to their own country ruins their lives, then so what? It's their own fault for illegally invading our country in the first place. The consequences are on their own heads, not ours.
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Everyone on the Mayflower was an illegal immigrant.......the best protest sign that I've seen yet...
 
APACHERAT said:
Isn't it a criminal conspiracy to make an agreement with someone like President Obama to break the law by aiding and abetting criminal behavior and refusing to enforce the laws of the land that says illegal aliens should be tried in court for illegal entry into the USA and sentenced to prison or deported ?
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President Obama has deported more illegals than any other president...
 
Ray410 said:
What about humanitarianism toward the American people? It's disgusting that the bleeding heart Liberals don't give a damn about Americans.

We don't owe the immigrants a damn thing. They and their huge dependent families should all be deported along with all the Mexicans that arrived in the past thirty years.

Americans were never allowed to vote on whether we wanted them here in culture destroying numbers so they're all here illegally. How would we treat anyone else that attempted to colonize our country and destroy our culture?
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How did the Native Americans treat those who colonized their country and destroyed their culture?
 
Juanita said:
Everyone on the Mayflower was an illegal immigrant.......the best protest sign that I've seen yet...
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That is simply not true.

At the time the Mayflower arrived, there was no established nation on this continent, and no set of laws regarding who could settle here. It was a large mass of land, only very sparsely inhabited by random tribes of savages here and there.

It took the arrival of many shipfulls of settlers from Europe to create a nation here, such that there could possibly be any laws regarding any further immigration.
 
Juanita said:
Everyone on the Mayflower was an illegal immigrant.......the best protest sign that I've seen yet...
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What immigration laws did they break?

Juanita said:
President Obama has deported more illegals than any other president...
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Well, when you have more illegal immigrants under your watch you're bound to have more deportations.

Juanita said:
How did the Native Americans treat those who colonized their country and destroyed their culture?
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They killed a boat load of them.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
That is simply not true.

At the time the Mayflower arrived, there was no established nation on this continent, and no set of laws regarding who could settle here. It was a large mass of land, only very sparsely inhabited by random tribes of savages here and there.

It took the arrival of many shipfulls of settlers from Europe to create a nation here, such that there could possibly be any laws regarding any further immigration.
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That is simply not true. At the time that the Mayflower arrived here, there were many nations, each with a set of laws for their own nations and confederations. The many ships full of settlers destroyed these nations... You can whitewash it all you want, but those are the facts..
 
azgreg said:
What immigration laws did they break?



Well, when you have more illegal immigrants under your watch you're bound to have more deportations.



They killed a boat load of them.
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Call it what you like, but what the settlers could not buy, they stole.

That is a bunch of crap..

Negative, in the beginning they welcomed the settlers......
 
CalGun said:
Proof? Nice claim but let's see your evidence.
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https://www.numbersusa.org/pages/jobs-americans-wont-do

77.7 percent of the 7.75 million workers in food preparation and serving jobs are native-born workers (does not include legal immigrant workers). It is harder to get a job at McDonalds than it is to get into Harvard.
65.8 percent of 5.38 million workers in cleaning and maintenance jobs are native-born workers (does not include legal immigrant workers)
74.5 percent of the 7.45 million workers in construction and extraction jobs are native-born workers (does not include legal immigrant workers)
75.9 percent of the 7.63 million workers in production jobs are native-born workers (does not include legal immigrant workers)
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The solution?

It is clear then, that these ARE jobs that Americans will do, if paid a fair wage.
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Before you harp about sources:

NumbersUSA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

NumbersUSA is an immigration reduction organization that seeks to reduce US immigration levels to pre-1965 levels without country of origin quotas as established in the Immigration Act of 1924. It advocates for immigration reduction through user-generated fax, email, and direct mail campaigns. NumbersUSA also seeks to educate the public about the environmental, social, and economic impacts of immigration policy.
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In short, even a clearly anti-immigration group like NumbersUSA admits: The way to stop illegal immigrants from wanting to come over is higher wages. They do jobs that some Americans feel are beneath them.

The conservative "Businessweek" speaks:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/why-americans-wont-do-dirty-jobs-11092011.html#p3

Rhodes says he understands why Americans aren’t jumping at the chance to slice up catfish for minimum wage. He just doesn’t know what he can do about it. “I’m sorry, but I can’t pay those kids $13 an hour,” he says. Although the Uniontown plant, which processes about 850,000 pounds of fish a week, is the largest in Alabama and sells to big supermarket chains including Food Lion, Harris Teeter, and Sam’s Club (WMT), Rhodes says overseas competitors, which pay employees even lower wages, are squeezing the industry.
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Finally, McClatchy.

But there are drawbacks. Illegal immigrants push down wages for legal workers in food-processing, factory and service jobs, economists say. Because illegal immigrants will work for almost any wage, employers have little reason to pay other workers more. Sometimes jobs that low-skilled Americans would be willing to do, such as washing dishes and cleaning bathrooms, are instead taken by illegal immigrants.

Illegal immigrants help the nation's private-sector economy by providing cheap labor — something that is especially critical for the Central Valley. But their competition with low-skilled American workers and their strain on local government budgets cancel out that boost for that nation's overall economy, some economists say.

Read more here: Which jobs are illegal immigrants taking? | Economy | McClatchy DC
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In short, immigrants don't just do jobs Americans don't want to do, they do jobs that Americans want to be overpaid for. They are what happens when you have a schizophrenic economy. One where employers want to pay less for labor and the economic mentality of laissez faire is allowed to exist unchecked. We can't have it both ways. Either we:

- have a government that pushes for a raise in wages in order for people to have an incentive to do those jobs
- have a government that is absent and lets "the market" deal with it (which means: lower wages, few people wanting to do the jobs)
- have a government that lowers taxes on small business and hopes it will be an incentive for business to raise wages so that Americans will want to do those jobs.

The reality any way you cut it is that without a raise in wages, people won't want to clean floors and wash windows for the crumbs the average illegal does it for. A lowering of taxes will just mean businesses who've been accustomed to illegal immigrant labor for 30+ years will just hire more of them and illegals will have an even bigger incentive to come over. Why pay a fat ass American $14USD an hour when you can pay 2 illegals $7USD to do the same labor and get twice the productivity?
 
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TeleKat said:
Most immigrants don't work for licensed employers anyway. Many mow lawns, clean houses, or do random odd-jobs for cash.
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Calgun said:

Proof? Nice claim but let's see your evidence.
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Hatuey said:
https://www.numbersusa.org/pages/jobs-americans-wont-do

77.7 percent of the 7.75 million workers in food preparation and serving jobs are native-born workers (does not include legal immigrant workers). It is harder to get a job at McDonalds than it is to get into Harvard.
65.8 percent of 5.38 million workers in cleaning and maintenance jobs are native-born workers (does not include legal immigrant workers)
74.5 percent of the 7.45 million workers in construction and extraction jobs are native-born workers (does not include legal immigrant workers)
75.9 percent of the 7.63 million workers in production jobs are native-born workers (does not include legal immigrant workers)

The solution?....​
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Huh?

1. How does that address what Calgun said?
Are you trying to refute him.. or back him up?

2. I already said that banishing illegals from Jobs would [have the additional Benefit] of killing the necessity for raising the Minimum Wage and would "Double" the wage for menial laborers/tasks and get rid of the Warping/Depressing effect illegals have.
great!

What's YOUR point?

You clearly went back in the string, but didn't read it well.​
 
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Juanita said:
Time for you to learn what a "search engine" is all about...
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And you BLIGHTED the string with your 5 or 6 one-liners, including claiming the Mayflower was "illegal immigrants".
A Claim you FAILED to Back.
 
TeleKat said:
Ok, so if you won't give them amnesty and you won't even provide a reasonable path to citizenship, what exactly are you going to do with the thousands of immigrants that have already crossed the border and have made lives here? I see no viable way of sending them all home without infringing on the 4th amendment and wasting a ton of taxpayer money. You must also keep in mind that you will end up tearing families apart and damaging the lives of those who aren't "legal" but have lived their whole lives here.
Click to expand...

How did they live their whole lives here if they just crossed over?
 
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