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Thread: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map[W:40]

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    Re: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map

    all districts should be drawn federally using only census data. Florida should also have its control over elections suspended until it can demonstrate that it can handle them without playing partisan tricks. the long lines were absolutely shameful, and amount to a poll tax, IMO.

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    Re: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Gerrymandering - the fundamental key to progressiveism. If you can't beat em' draw a line.
    Huh? This was a result of a very conservative legislature drawing up the lines. The ballot initiative was put on the ballot and passed due to widespread bi-partisan support.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    But its fair according to the people, so whats the problem? If you drew a square around Jacksonville, a white male would always win and 50% of the voters would always lose ideologically. Democrats wanted a black person so they carved out this odd shape to make sure a black person would win. And now you have a democrat district and a republican district, so the people are happy. Except the judges, who have a different standard of fair.
    "The people" passed a ballot initiative with the purpose of removing arbitrary lines drawn to give someone an inherent advantage. Maybe the parties in power either Republican or Democratic or the specific individuals are happy with the outcome but the reason the amendment was passed was to stop stuff like this from happening. There shouldn't be a black district, white district, jewish district, republican district, democratic district etc. It just leads to abuse when drawing the lines and creates safe districts where a person from one party pretty much only has to serve a specific groups interest.

    Gerrymandering creates "safe" seats and no seat should be safe.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    "The people" passed a ballot initiative with the purpose of removing arbitrary lines drawn to give someone an inherent advantage. Maybe the parties in power either Republican or Democratic or the specific individuals are happy with the outcome but the reason the amendment was passed was to stop stuff like this from happening. There shouldn't be a black district, white district, jewish district, republican district, democratic district etc. It just leads to abuse when drawing the lines and creates safe districts where a person from one party pretty much only has to serve a specific groups interest.

    Gerrymandering creates "safe" seats and no seat should be safe.
    Safe can be fair though, as with the african-american district at issue. It ensures an african american represents the african-americans in that district, basically the south side of Jacksonville. It even says that in the law that was passed.

    and districts shall not be drawn with the intent or result of denying or abridging the equal opportunity of racial or language minorities to participate in the political process or to diminish their ability to elect representatives of their choice
    Im not defending the legality, as the redistricting plan violates the spirit of the law. Rather im exploring the issue.

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    Re: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Safe can be fair though, as with the african-american district at issue. It ensures an african american represents the african-americans in that district, basically the south side of Jacksonville. It even says that in the law that was passed.



    Im not defending the legality, as the redistricting plan violates the spirit of the law. Rather im exploring the issue.
    Thank you for joining the conversation. And thank you for making some excellent points too.
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    Re: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    Safe can be fair though, as with the african-american district at issue. It ensures an african american represents the african-americans in that district, basically the south side of Jacksonville. It even says that in the law that was passed..
    That's very true, but there's no doubt it creates multiple seats representing Jacksonville where the black population aren't even a concern. Is one predominately black district better than blacks being a minority in multiple district but large enough that a Representative would have to take their views into consideration in order to win close elections? Are black even better served by creating a long serving incumbent that pretty much has no challenger? It's very difficult to unseat an incumbent in a primary. You generally have low turnout, you have a lot of candidates and the person with more name recognition has an advantage. I can see why Corrine Brown is fighting so hard to have her cushy seat kept safe it's generally people like her...from heavily gerrymandered districts to create a very safe seat, that run into corruption and accountability issues.

    Im not defending the legality, as the redistricting plan violates the spirit of the law. Rather im exploring the issue.
    I understand, I'm just not a fan of gerrymandering for any reason. When you make exceptions to create black districts...why not Jewish districts in South Florida? Or Hispanics in Tampa? Now you have three large gerrymandered districts drawn to incorporate the interests of those groups and more districts as a result of the gerrymandered districts which have very little diversity of views.

    I personally think the elections should be a battle. I hate the idea of someone punching in their time card for any reason
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    That's very true, but there's no doubt it creates multiple seats representing Jacksonville where the black population aren't even a concern. Is one predominately black district better than blacks being a minority in multiple district but large enough that a Representative would have to take their views into consideration in order to win close elections? Are black even better served by creating a long serving incumbent that pretty much has no challenger? It's very difficult to unseat an incumbent in a primary. You generally have low turnout, you have a lot of candidates and the person with more name recognition has an advantage. I can see why Corrine Brown is fighting so hard to have her cushy seat kept safe it's generally people like her...from heavily gerrymandered districts to create a very safe seat, that run into corruption and accountability issues.


    I understand, I'm just not a fan of gerrymandering for any reason. When you make exceptions to create black districts...why not Jewish districts in South Florida? Or Hispanics in Tampa? Now you have three large gerrymandered districts drawn to incorporate the interests of those groups and more districts as a result of the gerrymandered districts which have very little diversity of views.

    I personally think the elections should be a battle. I hate the idea of someone punching in their time card for any reason
    Then the result if you use blind districting is to make it so white males always win, because thats the majority of voters in any given demographic, and people are racist (both races). Jacksonville is 60% white, and 50/50 party and gender, with males voting more often. Then you have issues with rural vs city, where the city will dominate the rural areas, even though they are social separate. So youre just ensuring one group never wins. Kind of like libertarians.

    Whereas there are ways to run the election so each significant group gets representation, like in Europe, instead of winner take all (and loser gets nothing).

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    Re: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    all districts should be drawn federally using only census data. Florida should also have its control over elections suspended until it can demonstrate that it can handle them without playing partisan tricks. the long lines were absolutely shameful, and amount to a poll tax, IMO.
    The problem is that we dont follow the constitution on census districts. We stopped adding reps at 435. If we followed the constitution we would have thousand[s].


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    Re: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map

    Quote Originally Posted by 1750Texan View Post
    The problem is that we dont follow the constitution on census districts. We stopped adding reps at 435. If we followed the constitution we would have thousand[s].
    Yes we do. "Representation shall not exceed one for every thirty thousand" That means you cant have 2 reps if theres only 30k. BUt you can have as few as congress decides, so long as each state gets one. Currently its about one per 700k. That said, the country is obviously too big for the govt to represent.

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    Re: Judge throws out Florida's congressional map

    TBO.com | AP Wires

    But then Lewis ruled last Friday that the Legislature needed to draw up a new map by Aug. 15 because the judge is considering ordering a special election that relies on the revamped districts.

    Weatherford warned that while legislators will approve the new map now, they will fight any move to put it in place this year.

    The Wesley Chapel Republican said local election supervisors have already cautioned that implementing a new map now would disrupt this year's elections. He also ruled out holding a special election later this year by noting that groups such as the NAACP have contended that some voters would "be irreparably harmed" if the election was conducted at that time.
    Dont know if OP was actually interested in the outcome, or just in criticizing florida/gop, but theres an update. NAACP is not happy about losing their Jacksonville district.

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