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Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

What made you think I was confused? I asked you a yes or no question.

Did my bluntness confuse you? I asked a very straightforward question.

No, that is not so. You asked if three paragraphs which went to some trouble to point out that an unequivocal 'yes' or 'no' was not possible under the circumstances, comprised a 'yes'. From which two conclusions suggested themselves - (a) you were confused, or (b) you were deliberately baiting. I chose the more charitable conclusion of the two.
 
No, that is not so. You asked if three paragraphs which went to some trouble to point out that an unequivocal 'yes' or 'no' was not possible under the circumstances, comprised a 'yes'. From which two conclusions suggested themselves - (a) you were confused, or (b) you were deliberately baiting. I chose the more charitable conclusion of the two.
I understand that this has confused and frightened you, and for that I apologize.
 
You are correct that not all were economic refugees, but certainly the vast majority were, and still are. The reasons for people fleeing various places change depending upon the era, as does their destination.
Yes, of course I was correct.
Yes, I have read history, and I am aware of the many wars in Europe's past, and I am also aware that the USA became involved in the two world wars. It is readily apparent that the USA became involved in WW2 because Hitler declared war upon it, and the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor.
The US could have attacked Japan and ignored Hitler. But instead, despite "The War to End All Wars" the Europeans were at it again just a couple of decades later.
It did not enter that war, or World War 1 to 'save' anyone from themselves - it was the sinking of the Lusitania, and the Zimmerman telegram which were the triggers for US involvement (which came at the very last minute in the conflict).
Again, the Americans could have ignored all of this and not helped Britain at all. But they did.
The Cold War was a battle for hegemony by two national ideologies, and was about control - nothing else. As I indicated before, do not expect an European to subscribe to US flag waving
In fact Europe lost half of their continent and their anti-Americanism during this period never wavered, even as the Wall was coming down. These two "ideologies" as you call them, were as different as possible yet the Western Europeans couldn't seem to decide which they preferred. Communists at the time boasted how they could get 100,000 people marching in any major western European city with just a weeks notice.
LOL, I can understand your reaction, but has it occurred to you that the constant US anti-Europeanism (as evinced by this thread) might be equally tiresome to Europeans? We are none of us inherently superior to the other - we simply have different societal and value systems. :)
I'm not American but have worked there, and in Europe, and have never experienced any anti European attitude in the US until quite recently when they could see European vitriol on the internet. Prior to that they thought it quite quaint, though more than a little backward. They just don't care about Europe all that much which, oddly enough, is another European complaint. Of course anti-Americanism in Europe is rife and, as mentioned, so very tiresome. Make that very, very tiresome.
 
I'm not American but have worked there, and in Europe, and have never experienced any anti European attitude in the US until quite recently when they could see European vitriol on the internet. Prior to that they thought it quite quaint, though more than a little backward. They just don't care about Europe all that much which, oddly enough, is another European complaint. Of course anti-Americanism in Europe is rife and, as mentioned, so very tiresome. Make that very, very tiresome.

We have enjoyed similar exchanges before, and I know you are not an US citizen, but I urge you to return to the subject under discussion. I have no interest in fighting World War 2 again, or either supporting or decrying American nationalism. If anti-Americanism is rife anywhere, there are doubtless reasons for that phenomenon - you or I may not agree with them, but those reasons nonetheless exist.

I consider Germany to be justified in objecting to being spied upon by an alleged ally, and I consider Germany to be a very accomplished and civilised nation.
 
I'm not American but have worked there, and in Europe, and have never experienced any anti European attitude in the US.
Well, given that you're not a European, you wouldn't have, would you? That tends to be reserved for Europeans. Ask a French person if they've ever experienced anti-French attitudes in the US.
 
LOL, OK you win! :D
What's wrong, Leo? You don't enjoy such things?

I asked you if you felt Europe was superior to the US. You wrote three paragraphs that didn't answer the question, aside from flirting with saying that in your subjective opinion it was. But that was only implied, not said. Hence I asked if that was a yes.

Now apparently you understand that it was rather rude to ask if multi-syllabic confused me? Or you just enjoyed saying it without foundation, but didn't enjoy it being thrown back at you, equally unfounded? Either way, Leo, the lesson here for you is if you can't answer the question, don't ****ing try.
 
I asked you if you felt Europe was superior to the US.

That's pretty easy to answer. Europe's better at some things and worse at others. Overall, Europe isn't better or worse than the US, just different. Would you agree?
 
Well, given that you're not a European, you wouldn't have, would you? That tends to be reserved for Europeans. Ask a French person if they've ever experienced anti-French attitudes in the US.

Hahah, just put on any US tv channel on a daily basis (minus CNN international).
 
Actually, there is no real Problem at all.
Spies are usually thrown out of the country, aren't they?
Well, this is what happened. Period.
Let's now concern ourselves with things that really matter.
 
You think spying on other countries has ONLY happened with Obama? Puuuuuhlease.

I'd gladly call for the U.S. to apologize to other countries for spying on them if the other countries wern't spying on us as well.
Well, spying on other nations - and even on Business - is one thing.
Getting caught is another one.
For me it seems that US spies are as inefficient as US politicians if not to say the US economy.
 
BBC News - Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

I'm guessing that US-German relations aren't in such a good state at the moment. The idea that spying on your friends is just business as usual came as a surprise to Angela Merkel.

What should be Germany's next step?

What should the US reaction to this expulsion be? An apology? Or reprisal?

Why are we spying on Germany in the first place? they're hardly a threat...

Oh yeah - Obama is a ****ing moron that want's to look useful but doesn't want to out the real terrorists because they're brown - hence his buddies.
 
Why are we spying on Germany in the first place? they're hardly a threat...

Oh yeah - Obama is a ****ing moron that want's to look useful but doesn't want to out the real terrorists because they're brown - hence his buddies.
:lol: My ****ing God.
 
Actually, there is no real Problem at all.
Spies are usually thrown out of the country, aren't they?
Well, this is what happened. Period.
Let's now concern ourselves with things that really matter.

Asking a spy to leave is minimal and hardly worth mentioning unless it is the first time to happen between two countries.

But hhe real problem is the fact that the thing has been used to create an external enemy in the perception of the population in order to deflect from the certainly devious and deceptive and seemingly criminal behavior of the German government towards its own people. This is a problem, because the damage it does in the hearts and minds is severe, as can be seen from the effects earlier episodes of lashed up fury have had on the population here. Of course, the acute hatred dies down, when the government no longer needs to pursue the anti American campaign. Anyone can see how this works that reads the press during the "Auschwitz in the Sand" imbroglio. But under the surface the attitudes fester and the reactions grow into reflexes and votes.
 
Well, spying on other nations - and even on Business - is one thing.
Getting caught is another one.
For me it seems that US spies are as inefficient as US politicians if not to say the US economy.

Nobody was "caught". The German government and bureaucracies knew what was happening and were aiding the efforts, while gaining access to data they were legally not entitled to. If anyone was "caught", it was the Germans' government that is whipping up hate against the US to cover up.
 
I must damit, it is hard to believe anyone could write that.

I'll write whatever I want while you sit back and accept what the headlines tell you - if you even bother to read them or the entire story
 
I'll write whatever I want while you sit back and accept what the headlines tell you - if you even bother to read them or the entire story

Which story do you propose?
 
I consider Germany to be justified in objecting to being spied upon by an alleged ally, and I consider Germany to be a very accomplished and civilised nation.

I see, you have not read up on German behavior. A country edging toward Russia and that regularly supplies technologies for WMD to countries like Syria, Libya or Iran must be spied on by any country with half responsible leaders.
 
Which story do you propose?

Story?

I call this Germany nonsense a waste of time..... Is the government trying to make itself look useful?
 
I find that..... extremely difficult to believe. It is like saying that Merkel would be astonished to learn that the United States has spy satellites. Far more likely she felt she had to take this step to save face.

Both countries should continue to work with each other and both IC's will continue to collect on each other in order to best inform their decision-makers. Because that is their job.

If Germany wants to make too much noise about it, I would like an answer about why they lied to us about Curveball, given the rather disastrous consequences of that little deception.

Merkel is talking for the home audience, which is only natural. In this case it is dangerous. Of course successive German governments knew that the US agencies were spying on Germans. They had signed an agreement allowing it and their agencies helped American agencies do, what the were doing, in return for information that was illegal by German law for German agencies to access.

But the German population has been widely reared in a culture that has not helped maintain international security in over a hundred years. The last 60 of these marked by a growing moralizing culture and mythology to justify the country's free riding stance towards international security, which guaranteed the basis of the country's wealth. Most people here do not have even the most basic understanding of what it takes to maintain relative peace in the world. This goes so far as to block understanding the run up to Iraq2 or the implications of having supplied Iran with technologies that enable their nuclear program. The level of understanding is really scary low. And I am talking about people that have gone to school.
That explains such off the wall utterances as here portrayed: Merkel blasts U.S. spying, hopes Washington will change tack - The Washington Post
 
Story?

I call this Germany nonsense a waste of time..... Is the government trying to make itself look useful?

The German government is whipping up emotions to cover its own behind behind a smoke screen.
 
The German government is whipping up emotions to cover its own behind behind a smoke screen.

Over what?

I call this nonsense a bull**** smoke screen and an attempt to take emphasis off of other issues....

You see - the progressive brain is slow and loyal. This is "wag the dog."
 
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