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Thread: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    So you're not concerned in the least about terrorists possible entering illegally from the North? While you may put your faith in that, I surely wouldn't.
    Entering North from Canada? I'm in Canada and have no fear of anyone entering the US illegally from here. If the US wants to focus their attention on the Northern border rather than the Southern then it's okay with me. I just see it as more money down the hole.

    Islamic terrorists also try to murder Canadians, btw, so these problems are not near exclusive to the US. It's an international problem, and the United States is only exasperating it. Mexicans used to be able to enter Canada much like Americans could but no more. Canada has become more strict while the US has become porous and their living standards decline. But if you think this is moral and the world will look up to you for your benevolence, you are living in a fantasy world.
    I can't open that link yet, but I will look at it later in the day, thank you.
    You're quite welcome, and I think you'll enjoy it. It's funny in a rueful sort of way.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    As the Paul Celan said: Der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland.

    Todesfuge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    A little bit more of 'man's inhumanity to man' than I really need. A rather depressing culture, I found, and they seem to like it that way. Perhaps that explains the total absence of German comedians..

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    A little bit more of 'man's inhumanity to man' than I really need. A rather depressing culture, I found, and they seem to like it that way. Perhaps that explains the total absence of German comedians..
    Huh? Absence of German comedians? There are tons of them, you just don't know them because they... (shocker)... tell jokes in German.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    Huh? Absence of German comedians? There are tons of them, you just don't know them because they... (shocker)... tell jokes in German.
    Yes, they're probably quite humorous. Maybe a German mime would be the breakthrough they need.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Many Europeans point to the distant past when pointing out their historic achievements in order to overshadow their more recent failures. Your reference to "Johnny-come-lately migrant societies" rather gives the game away.
    LOL, I guess it does - but do you really consider that McDonalds, Coca Cola, and 'Atlas Shrugged' trump mechanised transport, the printing press, Beethoven, Mahler, Goethe, Schiller and Kant, as contributions to western civilisation?
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I wrote a short entry here somewhere and gave a number of examples and explanations. I will try to find it.

    For the moment a few examples that I am not going to explain in detail right now. They can, however, all be found in the public domain.

    - Germany was supplying Qaddafi with a chemical weapons plant until the US went public with the intelligence it had gathered in the crisis known as "Auschwitz in the Sand.
    - Germany supplied Syria with the component for its chemical weapons now being destroyed.
    - Germany made the Iranian nuclear program possible by supplying technology and apertures.
    - By supporting the separatists Genscher triggered the revolts in Yugoslavia with their the ethnic cleansing and other turmoil.
    - Schröder supported Putin and Chirac in the run up to the Iraq2 war giving Saddam the backing he thought would allow him to ignore the Security Council resolution and Bush ultimatum to abide by it. This caused Saddam to miscalculate and increased the likelihood of military conflict.
    - Germany committed to train the Afghan police. It delayed for domestic reasons in Germany till the project was in jeopardy and the Americans saw themselves forced to take over. This meant that a number of years were lost which allowed criminals to gain a large base. The related problems are still haunting the country.
    Thank you for taking the trouble to illustrate your point of view - I appreciate that, and was unaware of the instances you mention.

    I have not yet investigated those instances (if, as you say they are available in the public domain, that should be relatively easy,) but at first glance, many appear to be actions of German corporate entities, not necessarily German state policies, and the opposition to our invasion of Iraq was not limited to the Germans. I would have thought such opposition would have been regarded today as excellent foresight, given the cluster-**** which is Iraq today, as the direct result of our actions.

    Added to which, I am sure it is possible to draw up an extensive list of US and UK actions and policies which would put the current German shortcomings into the shade.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    LOL, I guess it does - but do you really consider that McDonalds, Coca Cola, and 'Atlas Shrugged' trump mechanised transport, the printing press, Beethoven, Mahler, Goethe, Schiller and Kant, as contributions to western civilisation?
    You're right. The last time I went to Europe all the MacDonalds were empty while the sounds of Mahler and Beethoven filled the streets. Europeans really are a classy lot.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    Thank you for taking the trouble to illustrate your point of view - I appreciate that, and was unaware of the instances you mention.

    I have not yet investigated those instances (if, as you say they are available in the public domain, that should be relatively easy,) but at first glance, many appear to be actions of German corporate entities, not necessarily German state policies, and the opposition to our invasion of Iraq was not limited to the Germans. I would have thought such opposition would have been regarded today as excellent foresight, given the cluster-**** which is Iraq today, as the direct result of our actions.

    Added to which, I am sure it is possible to draw up an extensive list of US and UK actions and policies which would put the current German shortcomings into the shade.
    Germans have never had a real problem with dictators. Why should Saddam have been any different?

    Anyway, Saddam was a piker where genocide was concerned.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    BBC News - Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    I'm guessing that US-German relations aren't in such a good state at the moment. The idea that spying on your friends is just business as usual came as a surprise to Angela Merkel.

    What should be Germany's next step?

    What should the US reaction to this expulsion be? An apology? Or reprisal?

    As an American, I think this is great news.


    Germany is its own country. The US needs to stop fighting an intelligence war with Russia already in other peoples countries. It's rude and a waste of money anyways.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    You're right. The last time I went to Europe all the MacDonalds were empty while the sounds of Mahler and Beethoven filled the streets. Europeans really are a classy lot.
    LOL, not sure about the streets, but the last time I was in Munich, I was browsing in a hobby/toy shop for model aero engines, and the music being played was Mozart. I heard at least one kid humming along to the tune. I am here to tell you that playing any form of classical music would clear a hobby shop, and probably a shopping centre, of anyone under 30 in the UK, the USA, or Australia. So autres temps autres mœurs - but I know who are more civilised.
    I hate the idea of causes, and if I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. E.M. Forster

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