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Thread: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

  1. #61
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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    To be fair, there isn't that much demand for Candians to immigrate to America illegally. Different border, different situation, different terrain, different people, different government.
    Then why the secure border with Canada if Canada is no threat? I know of no Canadian who wants to emigrate to the US to seek a better life style unless its for career improvement, such as in the entertainment industry.
    Poverty is the main reason that people immigrate from the south to America.
    Of course. Problems should be changed therefore at the source and secure borders built in the southern borders, just as they have done on the much longer northern borders.
    I wouldn't say the north border is sealed up tight, only that there isn't many crossing over from the North. I would wager if Canada found themselves in the same poverty level as Mexico and southern countries you would have the same problem.
    And if the Americans had the same poverty level as Mexicans and Central Americans then they might be trying to sneak across the Northern border also. The latter is more likely given the future energy, debt and social problems in the USA, with no attempts to correct them.

  2. #62
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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then why the secure border with Canada if Canada is no threat? I know of no Canadian who wants to emigrate to the US to seek a better life style unless its for career improvement, such as in the entertainment industry.
    I didn't say there was NO threat. I said there wan't much demand for people in Canada to enter into the U.S. illegally. Please don't put words in my mouth, you should be able to argue your own merits without doing that.

    Of course. Problems should be changed therefore at the source and secure borders built in the southern borders, just as they have done on the much longer northern borders.
    Please show how the north is more secure than the south border. Just because you have less people coming form the north, doesn't mean it is more secure. There is just less demand.

    And if the Americans had the same poverty level as Mexicans and Central Americans then they might be trying to sneak across the Northern border also. The latter is more likely given the future energy, debt and social problems in the USA, with no attempts to correct them.
    Then that would be the problem of Canada to solve and increase their border. The north border is not "sealed" tight as you think it is.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    LOL, I am not German, and do not as such have a dog in this hunt, but that is the most absurdly bizarre concept I have yet encountered on these pages. I should be most interested to learn of your reasons for regarding modern Germany as a 'loose cannon'.

    AFIK, the Federal Republic of Germany is one of the most responsible and successful nations on earth. It is considerably more highly regarded across the world than is the United States, or even the United Kingdom.

    To regard roughly 12 years (1933-1945) of the history of the German peoples - spanning over a thousand years - as defining the national character in perpetuity, is inaccurate to the extent of suggesting racial bias. It would be as logical to regard Abou Ghraib, or the My Lai massacre, as typifying the American character.

    The German contributions to western civilisation - from philosophy, music, engineering, etc. so far eclipses those of Johnny-come-lately migrant societies as to not warrant further consideration. We have the motor car because of Germans, we have the printing press because of the Germans and English, and we have the like of Beethoven, Mozart, and Mahler because of the Germanic people. We also have the English language because of Germanic culture.
    Many Europeans point to the distant past when pointing out their historic achievements in order to overshadow their more recent failures. Your reference to "Johnny-come-lately migrant societies" rather gives the game away.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    I didn't say there was NO threat. I said there wan't much demand for people in Canada to enter into the U.S. illegally. Please don't put words in my mouth, you should be able to argue your own merits without doing that.
    Then I'll say no threat. There is none. The US threat is from the southern border, which is far less guarded than the northern order.
    Please show how the north is more secure than the south border. Just because you have less people coming form the north, doesn't mean it is more secure. There is just less demand.Then that would be the problem of Canada to solve and increase their border. The north border is not "sealed" tight as you think it is.
    I'm in Canada now so am quite familiar with the borders though am not interested in doing the research on how much is spent between the north and south. Here is some amusing anecdotal evidence though. SIGNS OF THE TIMES: Happy Warrior :: SteynOnline
    Last edited by Grant; 07-11-14 at 11:47 AM.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Leo View Post
    You claim that Germany enjoys a good name and success because of irresponsible foreign policy, and charge that I have little knowledge of these nefarious German activities. Well, the latter is certainly true, but for me to accept your indictment of the German nation, you will need to spell out the irresponsibility of that nation's international politics. I see no evidence of such activities, so I await your presentation of such evidence.
    I wrote a short entry here somewhere and gave a number of examples and explanations. I will try to find it.

    For the moment a few examples that I am not going to explain in detail right now. They can, however, all be found in the public domain.

    - Germany was supplying Qaddafi with a chemical weapons plant until the US went public with the intelligence it had gathered in the crisis known as "Auschwitz in the Sand.
    - Germany supplied Syria with the component for its chemical weapons now being destroyed.
    - Germany made the Iranian nuclear program possible by supplying technology and apertures.
    - By supporting the separatists Genscher triggered the revolts in Yugoslavia with their the ethnic cleansing and other turmoil.
    - Schröder supported Putin and Chirac in the run up to the Iraq2 war giving Saddam the backing he thought would allow him to ignore the Security Council resolution and Bush ultimatum to abide by it. This caused Saddam to miscalculate and increased the likelihood of military conflict.
    - Germany committed to train the Afghan police. It delayed for domestic reasons in Germany till the project was in jeopardy and the Americans saw themselves forced to take over. This meant that a number of years were lost which allowed criminals to gain a large base. The related problems are still haunting the country.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Then I'll say no threat. There is none. The US threat is from the southern border, which is far less guarded than the northern order.
    So you're not concerned in the least about terrorists possible entering illegally from the North? While you may put your faith in that, I surely wouldn't.

    I'm in Canada now so am quite familiar with the borders though am not interested in doing the research on how much is spent between the north and south. Here is some amusing anecdotal evidence though. SIGNS OF THE TIMES: Happy Warrior :: SteynOnline
    I can't open that link yet, but I will look at it later in the day, thank you.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I wrote a short entry here somewhere and gave a number of examples and explanations. I will try to find it.

    For the moment a few examples that I am not going to explain in detail right now. They can, however, all be found in the public domain.

    - Germany was supplying Qaddafi with a chemical weapons plant until the US went public with the intelligence it had gathered in the crisis known as "Auschwitz in the Sand.
    - Germany supplied Syria with the component for its chemical weapons now being destroyed.
    - Germany made the Iranian nuclear program possible by supplying technology and apertures.
    - By supporting the separatists Genscher triggered the revolts in Yugoslavia with their the ethnic cleansing and other turmoil.
    - Schröder supported Putin and Chirac in the run up to the Iraq2 war giving Saddam the backing he thought would allow him to ignore the Security Council resolution and Bush ultimatum to abide by it. This caused Saddam to miscalculate and increased the likelihood of military conflict.
    - Germany committed to train the Afghan police. It delayed for domestic reasons in Germany till the project was in jeopardy and the Americans saw themselves forced to take over. This meant that a number of years were lost which allowed criminals to gain a large base. The related problems are still haunting the country.
    Of course they never hesitated to turn on each other during the Cold War either, but they do have good engineers.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Of course they never hesitated to turn on each other during the Cold War either, but they do have good engineers.
    As the Paul Celan said: Der Tod ist ein Meister aus Deutschland.

    Todesfuge - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    It's called espionage and everyone does it. Feigning shock is part of it, too. No big deal.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    "Then and now"? When do you mean?
    Post WW II cold war days and now. I am sure you agree that the scope of intelligence activities has changed considerably.

    As far as I have seen, the contract was signed by the Chancellery well after the end of the Cold War
    And the reason was the fight against the Soviets and their proxies in the then East Germany. That the West German government was infested with spies is a well known fact and thus the need to spy on members of the government. The current situation is hardly similar and clearly necessitates a different approach and scope. Do you really believe that the German Chancellor could be serving the interests of terrorists?

    Besides that it is totally normal for countries to spy on other countries.
    Indeed, but that is a far cry from them consenting to it. Remember the case of the Israeli spy and how we were up in arms over it. Israel is one of our trusted allies... so is it hypocrisy?

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