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Thread: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

  1. #21
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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    The issue is that they found a double agent in their spy agency/military and you bring in something about treaties and the Germans being hypocrites.. so I ask again, what does an intelligence sharing treaty have to do with the Americans planting a spy in the German government?
    If a government allows spying and does not make precise, where it is not allowed, then that party to the contract did a lousy job. That is not atypical for European treaties and contracts as anyone who knows the Maastricht/Lisbon mess knows. From what I understand, however, the contract has a do what it takes clause and that takes any legal argument from the table. IT also makes the populist way the thing it being worked by German media and politicians rather irresponsible. This is especially the case, where the BND was making data accessible for mining, helping NSA and using the intelligence it itself was forbidden to generate after receiving it from NSA.

    Having said that, it would be irresponsible of the Americans not to spy on such a dangerous loos cannon as Germany has been.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If a government allows spying and does not make precise, where it is not allowed, then that party to the contract did a lousy job. That is not atypical for European treaties and contracts as anyone who knows the Maastricht/Lisbon mess knows. From what I understand, however, the contract has a do what it takes clause and that takes any legal argument from the table. IT also makes the populist way the thing it being worked by German media and politicians rather irresponsible. This is especially the case, where the BND was making data accessible for mining, helping NSA and using the intelligence it itself was forbidden to generate after receiving it from NSA.

    Having said that, it would be irresponsible of the Americans not to spy on such a dangerous loos cannon as Germany has been.
    So you are telling me that because of a cold war treaty, during a time when West Germany jumped when the US/UK said it should.. then in 2014 the US has a right and blessing by the German government to spy on the German government and implant spies regardless of the fact that the agreement was to prevent East German/Russian spies from infiltrating the fragile German democracy?

    Is that really your excuse and the excuse of all the US apologists when defending their illegalities in other countries? Seriously?
    PeteEU

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    So you are telling me that because of a cold war treaty, during a time when West Germany jumped when the US/UK said it should.. then in 2014 the US has a right and blessing by the German government to spy on the German government and implant spies regardless of the fact that the agreement was to prevent East German/Russian spies from infiltrating the fragile German democracy?

    Is that really your excuse and the excuse of all the US apologists when defending their illegalities in other countries? Seriously?
    I reread, what I wrote and don't think I said that. Of course, a contract would be valid in the case you describe, if it remained uncanceled. But I had not understood it to be that old.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I think at a minimum, an apology.
    It will not come, because that would be an admission they did something wrong,
    and I think that is beyond the capability of this administration.
    First you guys whine and bitch about how obama is weak because he goes on apology tours and now you are whining and bitching because you don't think he has the ability to apologize. Make up your mind folks and let's try to get some consistency in all the obama derangement syndrome tantrums.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If a government allows spying and does not make precise, where it is not allowed, then that party to the contract did a lousy job. That is not atypical for European treaties and contracts as anyone who knows the Maastricht/Lisbon mess knows. From what I understand, however, the contract has a do what it takes clause and that takes any legal argument from the table. IT also makes the populist way the thing it being worked by German media and politicians rather irresponsible. This is especially the case, where the BND was making data accessible for mining, helping NSA and using the intelligence it itself was forbidden to generate after receiving it from NSA.

    Having said that, it would be irresponsible of the Americans not to spy on such a dangerous loos cannon as Germany has been.
    It is not Germany which has been the 'loose cannon', and the US has already been caught listening in on Merkel's private calls anyway.

    I don't know what Obama would do with any information he get's from the upper levels of the German government but he wouldn't be acting on any information he receives for America's advantage.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    First you guys whine and bitch about how obama is weak because he goes on apology tours and now you are whining and bitching because you don't think he has the ability to apologize. Make up your mind folks and let's try to get some consistency in all the obama derangement syndrome tantrums.
    Or maybe Obama should get out of the kitchen.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    If a government allows spying and does not make precise, where it is not allowed, then that party to the contract did a lousy job. That is not atypical for European treaties and contracts as anyone who knows the Maastricht/Lisbon mess knows. From what I understand, however, the contract has a do what it takes clause and that takes any legal argument from the table. IT also makes the populist way the thing it being worked by German media and politicians rather irresponsible. This is especially the case, where the BND was making data accessible for mining, helping NSA and using the intelligence it itself was forbidden to generate after receiving it from NSA.

    Having said that, it would be irresponsible of the Americans not to spy on such a dangerous loos cannon as Germany has been.
    Wow, no WOW! Germany is a "dangerous, loose cannon"????
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    It is not Germany which has been the 'loose cannon', and the US has already been caught listening in on Merkel's private calls anyway.

    I don't know what Obama would do with any information he get's from the upper levels of the German government but he wouldn't be acting on any information he receives for America's advantage.
    As I pointed out, it was only politeness to be sweet to Merkel, but it was probably not actually forbidden nor so horrid to eavesdrop. And it is not useless to capture information in and out of the top slot, as anyone that has followed Germany in the past years.

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    As I pointed out, it was only politeness to be sweet to Merkel, but it was probably not actually forbidden nor so horrid to eavesdrop. And it is not useless to capture information in and out of the top slot, as anyone that has followed Germany in the past years.
    What would Obama do with any information he receives and what do you think he is looking for?

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    Re: Germany expels CIA official in US spy row

    Quote Originally Posted by PeteEU View Post
    Wont happen. The US apologies almost never to anyone for the crap they pull.



    Far from only this administration.
    We are still waiting on the apology from Bush about the Iraq war.
    .



    And you'll still be waiting a long time from now because it isn't coming.

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