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Thread: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by shavingcollywob View Post
    That's not true. It's absurd labor and environmental laws that are depressing wages here.

    Manufacturers wouldn't bring jobs back to the United States even if workers agreed to half what a Chinese factory worker was making.
    Nonsense.

    A minimum wage worker here gets $64 (appx) for an eight hour day. Plus labor burden.

    You can get as many as 32 semi skilled workers for 14-16 hours out the door for $64 overseas. At least a dozen. For your premise to be accurate, compliance would be say $50 per worker per day.

    I would have to see proof of this.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Nonsense.

    A minimum wage worker here gets $64 (appx) for an eight hour day. Plus labor burden.

    You can get as many as 32 semi skilled workers for 14-16 hours out the door for $64 overseas. At least a dozen. For your premise to be accurate, compliance would be say $50 per worker per day.

    I would have to see proof of this.
    It doesn’t matter how low wages are when the work force is on strike and environmentalists are closing down factories.

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by shavingcollywob View Post
    It doesn’t matter how low wages are when the work force is on strike and environmentalists are closing down factories.
    Got some proof that that was the case?

    General strikes and wholesale factory closings?

    Or are you just repeating dogma?
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Wal-mart does not keep people on the poverty. Individuals employees do that themselves. They don't put the work in to move up, or require more skills that would make worth more to company or able to to a better paying job outside of wal-mart.
    Except that they do. Walmart don't want their low level employees to progress as they would have to pay them more and bring in more cashiers etc to replace them. They keep their drones mostly on part-time hours and when it comes time to give them a pay-rise or offer them full-time hours they get rid of them and replace them with more drones.
    ‘This is not peace, it is an armistice for 20 years.’ (Ferdinand Foch. After the Treaty of Versailles, 1919).

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I don't think the government is lying (they are too smart for that)...but I think they are knowingly tabulating and presenting the numbers (both the CPI and the U-3) in a way that provides a greatly distorted view of the reality on Main Street.
    There is some truth to that, but U-3 hasn't changed for a couple of decades, and neither has CPI.

    And the unemployment rate is falling because people are leaving the workforce...period.

    Just look at last month...288,000 jobs created.
    But look at the household survey numbers and you see that 799K part time jobs were created but 523K full time jobs were lost for a net loss in total hours worked. So it was a negative report but is reported as a good one.

    The U-3 is the same...it's a joke because it ignores discouraged workers.
    I'm not picking on you here, but this is why I ignore Zero Hedge when they discuss the jobs report. Yes, this month there was an increase of 800k in voluntary unemployed, for NONeconomic reasons. People who wanted part time work, seasonally adjusted. NSA it decreased from last month. Looks weird statistically because there is no reason to have that big a jump with nothing really going on in the economy.

    So, what typically happens is there is a technical correction to a month like this that is WAY out of the normal month to month variation, or next month the number reverses and we have a bunch FEWER part time jobs, and that's ignored.

    Bottom line is from the bottom in 2009, full time positions are up about 6 million, and part time jobs haven't changed much. Part time for economic reasons have dropped 1.2 million, part time for NONeconomic reasons up about 800k, including the 800k increase last month.


    I ignore the headline numbers and the major media reports (they are clueless, IMO) and read the fine print...that is where the story is.
    I agree - the details, and the long term trends. The month to month variation is often just noise.

    It seems clear to me that this is a Mercedes/McDonald's recovery - with little in between; the Fed is indirectly pumping up the stock markets (GREATLY helping the rich) and gov't./Fed programs are causing rises in crappy jobs for a reduction in solid jobs (quantity over quality).

    So the rich get richer and the economy looks decent because the U-3 does not count discouraged workers AND part time jobs are counted equal to full time jobs.

    And the masses/media are too naive and/or too ignorant and/or too partisan to notice.
    We've lost industry - that's why we don't have a robust recovery. The wealth is created offshore where stuff is made, we import it, so low wage workers can sell it. There is little value created in selling a TV made in China, but that is our entire piece of that transaction now, so if spending goes up, an order is received by a factory offshore, which makes it, converts plastic and glass etc. into something valuable and all we do is put it on a shelf in a box, then some kid hauls it to the car in the parking lot.

    But let's sign some more 'free trade' agreements. The next one should do wonders for U.S. industry!

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Wal-mart does not keep people on the poverty. Individuals employees do that themselves. They don't put the work in to move up, or require more skills that would make worth more to company or able to to a better paying job outside of wal-mart.
    Individually people can move from a Walmart job to a better job - no doubt that's true. But that Walmart job is and will always be a low value added and therefore low wage job, so if someone manages to move up and out of Walmart, someone else will be in that crap job. Micro versus macro.

    Further, they're a leader in the low cost strategy and are relentless in demanding their suppliers cut the price of their goods, which the suppliers can ONLY do by offshoring the production. So the choice for a supplier is offshore, or not get stocked by the largest U.S. retailer, so they rationally shut down the U.S. plant and move offshore, where production is subsidized by the host countries, good for employment growth in the offshore locations, but not so good for U.S. workers making stuff.

    Finally, a memo came out a few years ago where they really do NOT like long term employees for most positions (obviously different for managers etc.) They have consciously decided on a strategy of high turnover, low wage labor.

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    There is some truth to that, but U-3 hasn't changed for a couple of decades, and neither has CPI.
    Actually, the calculation process for the CPI has changed quite a bit over the last couple of decades.

    'Originally, the CPI was determined by comparing the price of a fixed basket of goods and services in two different periods. Determined as such, the CPI was a cost of goods index (COGI). However, over time, the U.S. Congress embraced the view that the CPI should reflect changes in the cost to maintain a constant standard of living. Consequently, the CPI has been moving toward becoming a cost of living index (COLI).

    Over the years, the methodology used to calculate the CPI has also undergone numerous revisions. According to the BLS, the changes removed biases that caused the CPI to overstate the inflation rate. The new methodology takes into account changes in the quality of goods and substitution. Substitution, the change in purchases by consumers in response to price changes, changes the relative weighting of the goods in the basket. The overall result tends to be a lower CPI. However, critics view the methodological changes and the switch from a COGI to a COLI focus as a purposeful manipulation that allows the U.S. government to report a lower CPI.'

    Why The Consumer Price Index Is Controversial



    I'm not picking on you here, but this is why I ignore Zero Hedge when they discuss the jobs report. Yes, this month there was an increase of 800k in voluntary unemployed, for NONeconomic reasons. People who wanted part time work, seasonally adjusted. NSA it decreased from last month. Looks weird statistically because there is no reason to have that big a jump with nothing really going on in the economy.

    So, what typically happens is there is a technical correction to a month like this that is WAY out of the normal month to month variation, or next month the number reverses and we have a bunch FEWER part time jobs, and that's ignored.

    Bottom line is from the bottom in 2009, full time positions are up about 6 million, and part time jobs haven't changed much. Part time for economic reasons have dropped 1.2 million, part time for NONeconomic reasons up about 800k, including the 800k increase last month.
    actually, the numbers I quoted were from the BLS website...though I admit Zero Hedge put me on to the idea - but I always like to double check ZH's numbers with a second source.

    Table A-9. Selected employment indicators

    I am taking the numbers from the household data under 'full time' and 'part time' number of employed...seasonally adjusted (near the bottom of the page).

    And from May to June there were 799K more part time people employed and 523K less full time people employed.




    I agree - the details, and the long term trends. The month to month variation is often just noise.



    We've lost industry - that's why we don't have a robust recovery. The wealth is created offshore where stuff is made, we import it, so low wage workers can sell it. There is little value created in selling a TV made in China, but that is our entire piece of that transaction now, so if spending goes up, an order is received by a factory offshore, which makes it, converts plastic and glass etc. into something valuable and all we do is put it on a shelf in a box, then some kid hauls it to the car in the parking lot.

    But let's sign some more 'free trade' agreements. The next one should do wonders for U.S. industry!

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    'BENTONVILLE Arkansas (Reuters) - U.S. employers may be hiring again, but the job market's recovery is not giving ordinary consumers enough confidence to increase their spending, a top Wal-Mart <WMT.N> executive said on Monday.
    In an interview with Reuters at the retailer’s headquarters, Bill Simon, the president and chief executive officer of Wal-Mart U.S., said, “It's really hard to see in our business today … that it's gotten any better.”

    He added: “We’ve reached a point where it’s not getting any better but it’s not getting any worse – at least for the middle (class) and down."'

    Wal-Mart: US Job Rebound Not Spurring Spending - Business Insider


    So much for this great recovery...
    I'd personally like to thank walk marts CEO for suppressing the economic recovery because instead of spending money on infrastructure and creating more jobs, we are instead all forced to pay for his employees food stamps and other subsidies because they pay their employees so poorly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office. I'm all for a solution where a Republican gets in that isn't Moore.

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I'd personally like to thank walk marts CEO for suppressing the economic recovery because instead of spending money on infrastructure and creating more jobs, we are instead all forced to pay for his employees food stamps and other subsidies because they pay their employees so poorly.
    Lol, isn't that the truth!

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Actually, the calculation process for the CPI has changed quite a bit over the last couple of decades.
    I agree, but the last big changes were in the early 1990s, Greenspan/Clinton.

    actually, the numbers I quoted were from the BLS website...though I admit Zero Hedge put me on to the idea - but I always like to double check ZH's numbers with a second source.

    Table A-9. Selected employment indicators

    I am taking the numbers from the household data under 'full time' and 'part time' number of employed...seasonally adjusted (near the bottom of the page).

    And from May to June there were 799K more part time people employed and 523K less full time people employed.
    I figured - this kind of thing is a ZH special. Been seeing it for years, which is why I now ignore them on employment reports. Calculated Risk does a good job analysing the reports each month, and he has no partisan bias that I can see.

    And I could follow your numbers fine - A-8 and A-9. My point was those figures make no sense. From Feb to May, part time workers went all the way from 27,330 to 27,219 (minus 111 thousand, over 3 months, almost no monthly change). Then from May to June, went from 27,219 to 28,018 (up 799k in one month). We can't know what the actual numbers are, but that's just not a believable series. Finally, almost all that change is due to part time for NONeconomic reasons - 840k more WANTED to work part time in June versus May.

    So it's noise. Whether the numbers were too low for the past few months, this month's numbers have some weird flaw, something is distorting the month to month comparison, which is why the short term variations are often not much use. If the number stays high next month, and in August, we have a trend. For now, who the heck knows....

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