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Thread: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

  1. #11
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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I don't think the government is lying (they are too smart for that)...but I think they are knowingly tabulating and presenting the numbers (both the CPI and the U-3) in a way that provides a greatly distorted view of the reality on Main Street.

    The CPI as an inflation indicator is a joke....it is at best an inflation/cost-of-living hybrid.

    And the unemployment rate is falling because people are leaving the workforce...period.

    Just look at last month...288,000 jobs created.
    But look at the household survey numbers and you see that 799K part time jobs were created but 523K full time jobs were lost for a net loss in total hours worked. So it was a negative report but is reported as a good one.

    The U-3 is the same...it's a joke because it ignores discouraged workers.

    I ignore the headline numbers and the major media reports (they are clueless, IMO) and read the fine print...that is where the story is.


    It seems clear to me that this is a Mercedes/McDonald's recovery - with little in between; the Fed is indirectly pumping up the stock markets (GREATLY helping the rich) and gov't./Fed programs are causing rises in crappy jobs for a reduction in solid jobs (quantity over quality).

    So the rich get richer and the economy looks decent because the U-3 does not count discouraged workers AND part time jobs are counted equal to full time jobs.

    And the masses/media are too naive and/or too ignorant and/or too partisan to notice.
    We notice, and we HATE.

    But we are powerless to change.

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Wal-mart does not keep people on the poverty. Individuals employees do that themselves. They don't put the work in to move up, or require more skills that would make worth more to company or able to to a better paying job outside of wal-mart.
    I know several people that graduated with me from college, who have been employed with Wal-Mart for several years and have been looking to move up not only in the company but to other jobs as well and cannot get a promotion/ a better job. It is a collective problem that needs to be solved within businesses, not through the government.
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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    So a couple generations before we can see an increase in America?
    Not necessarily. If the US structures to be more competitive it would gain.

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by cpgrad08 View Post
    Wal-mart does not keep people on the poverty. Individuals employees do that themselves. They don't put the work in to move up, or require more skills that would make worth more to company or able to to a better paying job outside of wal-mart.
    That isn't how Walmart keeps people in poverty.

    Of course general retail help is going to earn minimum wage or close to it. That's the nature of the entry-level retail world.

    But what Walmart does, and has the power to do as the result of economies of scale, is negotiate wholesale prices down to the point that they force their vendors to either manufacture overseas or import from overseas (where manufacturing labor is dirt cheap) if they want to sell through Walmart.

    Since most consumer packaged goods manufacturers and jobbers can't continue doing business unless they sell through Walmart (because their competition certainly will and since everyone shops as Walmart the lack of sales would drive them out of business) they're forced to either move operations offshore or contract with foreign-owned operations that are already capitalizing on third-world labor.

    That's one of the biggest reasons that "good paying middle-class manufacturing jobs" are now so scarce in America.

    Yes, we still have an enormous manufacturing sector here, probably the largest in the world.

    But it used to be, in a general sense, the only manufacturing sector in the world for American purposes and was significantly larger than it currently is.

    All the folks that used to do those good-paying (relatively speaking) manufacturing jobs (the 60% of Americans who have traditionally been the high school diploma bearing blue-collar backbone of the economy) are now taking minimum wage jobs at Walmart and McDonalds and etc...

    Without that middle-class purchasing power driving the economy we have no real hope of a real recovery.
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    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Not necessarily. If the US structures to be more competitive it would gain.
    Have to eliminate desperation globally first. And that desperation is good for business, so I imagine they'll lobby to make sure things don't get TOO better elsewhere.

    I see no incentive to allow a situation where wages start to go up globally. Easier to just make small profits from large numbers of low paid workers than allow them to obtain leverage.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by iacardsfan View Post
    It is not the role of the government to "recover" the economy.
    I disagree.

    The numerous one-sided free trade agreements that the government has negotiated are at the root of the current problem.

    Foreign manufacturers can import raw materials and piece-parts from America for cheap, then manufacture finished goods on the back of slave labor (or tantamount to), then export those goods back to America for cheap.

    As long as that continues unabated (hell, it's actually increasing with each no FTA) there's no hope for us.

    Add in Chinese currency manipulation and the attendant trade imbalance that creates and we're truly screwed.
    Last edited by soot; 07-09-14 at 05:14 PM.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Have to eliminate desperation globally first. And that desperation is good for business, so I imagine they'll lobby to make sure things don't get TOO better elsewhere.

    I see no incentive to allow a situation where wages start to go up globally. Easier to just make small profits from large numbers of low paid workers than allow them to obtain leverage.
    The number of humans is still growing, but in Europe it has already peaked and will in the US and China too soon. But it will take time. History does.

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    The number of humans is still growing, but in Europe it has already peaked and will in the US and China too soon. But it will take time. History does.
    And I suspect that by that time enough of what can be owned will be owned by a tiny handful of people who will use those assets to maintain that balance.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    And I suspect that by that time enough of what can be owned will be owned by a tiny handful of people who will use those assets to maintain that balance.
    At that point doing something about it will be more easily handled without doing huge harm to the poorest of the planet.

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    Re: WAL-MART CEO: Things Aren't Getting Better For America's Middle Class

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    At that point doing something about it will be more easily handled without doing huge harm to the poorest of the planet.
    If it is profitable to do so.

    If it is more profitable for most to stay poor, then they will stay poor.

    What you're saying SOUNDS good. I just don't see those competing to see whose money pile is bigger giving that game up. Especially when population is higher and more resources have been expended.

    There was no altruistic motive to outsourcing. In some places its just a livestock model. Enough to keep their resources healthy. Not enough for them to get comfortable enough to start negotiating for a larger percentage of what they produce. They have some money for consumption, little for saving.

    It is interesting that when we were sold all the free trade agreements nobody bothered to mention a protracted stagnation or lowering of wages for the vast majority of the population of this country so that billions could be raised from abject poverty. IIRC, we were told quite the opposite. And opponents predicted what we're seeing now. American workers in DIRECT competition with people in RADICALLY different economies. And a profit motive in maintaining low wages and dominance over labor. Plenty of money to spread around to keep 'em hungry

    This whole argument reeks. It gives an impression that global businesses are lovingly raising the wretched up. Reality paints a different picture on the ground.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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