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Thread: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

  1. #21
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    This is the result of ignorance. People who don't understand science but think they do. I will never understand why people think that an idea they had while looking out the window is just as valid as a scientist... A professional, a person who went to college and got a degree, who spent many years studying after college and while working in the field many years as a career.

    I've said this many times in the environmental forum and I will say it again here. Almost all of the questions about global warming can be answered simply by reading an introductory science textbook. The remaining questions can be answered by studying climate science and reading the IPCC's reports.

    If you don't know anything about these things, you should not have an opinion that you think AGW is X(anything), because you have no idea. If you are going to have an opinion at least do a bare minimum of research and learn basic science first, it is not that hard at all. If you don't do this, you are at the mercy of whatever nonsense is spewed from television, radio, the internet. It is laughably stupid and you will immediately spot it once you learn a few basic things.
    Outstanding post, and really sums up the anti-intellectual movement in the USA. Some are ignorant, but those who revel in their ignorance I just can not understand.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    What the hell are you talking about? I suggested people educate themselves and you made a veiled reference to AGW predictions as being a trick so I suggested you look at the evidence yourself.

    edit: Perhaps I misunderstood your original reply?
    The evidence is that the Global average temperatures based on the GISS have increased by .8 C since 1880.
    At the same time CO2 levels have increased from 280 ppm to 401 ppm.
    The AGW predictions from the IPCC say doubling the CO2 level will result in a temperature
    increase between 1.5 and 4.5 C.
    Baede et al:
    It is believed that the overall effect of the feedbacks
    amplifies the temperature increase to 1.5 to 4.5C.
    A significant part of this uncertainty range arises
    from our limited knowledge of clouds and their interactions with radiation.
    We are 43% of our way to doubling CO2, but the diminishing response curve of CO2
    means we should have seen 52% of the effect, about .6C.
    This means all of the remaining variables of warming are contained in .2C, over 133 years.
    .2C per century is well within the natural variability.
    Does this mean Human activity is not causing some warming, of course not,
    it does mean the warming will likely be in the low end of the IPCC prediction,
    and not catastrophic.
    We have real problems to worry about, without having to create artificial ones.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager1 View Post
    There are better reasons to use green technologies other then just climate change... people today live today with technology and advancements that make life better, why would we want to stop progress and advancement?
    " Green energy " or renewable energy technology is a huge joke right now.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    " Green energy " or renewable energy technology is a huge joke right now.
    I disagree.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by voyager1 View Post
    I disagree.
    Ofcourse you disagree.

    You're limited by ideology, not by whats practical, cost effective or even GREEN.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    And in a new poll...20% of respondents believed 20% of respondents will vote for the '20% of respondents will vote' option.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    The evidence is that the Global average temperatures based on the GISS have increased by .8 C since 1880.
    At the same time CO2 levels have increased from 280 ppm to 401 ppm.
    The AGW predictions from the IPCC say doubling the CO2 level will result in a temperature
    increase between 1.5 and 4.5 C.
    Baede et al:

    We are 43% of our way to doubling CO2, but the diminishing response curve of CO2
    means we should have seen 52% of the effect, about .6C.
    This means all of the remaining variables of warming are contained in .2C, over 133 years.
    .2C per century is well within the natural variability.
    Does this mean Human activity is not causing some warming, of course not,
    it does mean the warming will likely be in the low end of the IPCC prediction,
    and not catastrophic.
    We have real problems to worry about, without having to create artificial ones.
    You're drawing a lot of conclusions and throwing a lot of things out there backed by what?

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Personally, I believe there is at least significant global warming...but I am far from certain.

    Having said that, I think the government should take a definitive stand on what it believes is the case.

    I also think that if the government does (or ever does) believe that there is significant global warming going on - then they should decide on a formula to determine how 'polluting' individual companies/corporations are and then publish those findings on a monthly basis.

    Then I think they should do nothing (outside of environmental disasters obviously) and leave it up to the public to decide whether or not to boycott those companies that are the more egregious polluters.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    You're drawing a lot of conclusions and throwing a lot of things out there backed by what?
    Well, Let's start at IPCC AR-5, who cites Baede et al as, "1.2.2 key concepts in climate Science"
    http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/pdf/tar-01.pdf
    Within Baede et al, they lay out where the beliefs of catastrophic AGW are based.
    If the amount of carbon dioxide were doubled instantaneously,
    with everything else remaining the same, the outgoing infrared
    radiation would be reduced by about 4 Wm−2. In other words, the
    radiative forcing corresponding to a doubling of the CO2 concentration
    would be 4 Wm−2. To counteract this imbalance, the
    temperature of the surface-troposphere system would have to
    increase by 1.2C (with an accuracy of 10%), in the absence of
    other changes. In reality, due to feedbacks, the response of the
    climate system is much more complex. It is believed that the
    overall effect of the feedbacks amplifies the temperature increase
    to 1.5 to 4.5C. A significant part of this uncertainty range arises
    from our limited knowledge of clouds and their interactions with
    radiation.
    The temperature record is the GISS,
    http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/ta...LB.Ts+dSST.txt
    The J-D volume goes from -.21 C to +.59 C, that's .8 C most places.
    CO2 level, we can go with NOAA, 401 ppm (the pre-industrial level of 280 ppm is widely accepted)
    ESRL Global Monitoring Division - Global Greenhouse Gas Reference Network

    So doubling CO2 from 280 ppm would raise the level to 560 ppm,
    at 401 ppm we are 121/280= .43% of our way towards a doubling of CO2.
    Since Baede et al said the 1.2 C was only 10%, a simple curve fit will be close enough.
    4X(log560)-4X(log280)=1.204 (a little high, but within 10%)
    4X(log560)-4X(log401)=.580 (this is the remaining part so) 1.2 C- .580 C= .62 C

    The observed increase is .8 C,
    The direct response of CO2 is .62 C.
    The difference is .18 C.

    My curve fitting may not be accurate, but the number was only 10%,
    all the rest is very basic math.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Having said that, I think the government should take a definitive stand on what it believes is the case.
    Please. Let's have fewer "definitive stands" from government. Let's get back to fostering some freedom and individualism.

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