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Thread: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

  1. #271
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    The Koch brothers have done an admirable job making Climate Science into politics.
    I don't think the Koch brothers had anything to do with cap and trade legislation. If we're going to start assigning blame to people who have politicized this issue it pretty much starts and stops with cap and trade. Take that away and does this even enter the political arena?

    The issue got politicized when people started talking about "solutions" and when those solutions have the effect of raping the middle class via MUCH higher energy costs, naturally there is going to be some pretty hefty push-back. It also doesn't help when the seats at the head table of the proposed 'carbon exchange' have already been delegated to the same people who brought you the housing bubble a few years ago.

    Never ceases to amaze me how the Kochs always seem to take the heat while the boards of directors on Wall Street get a free pass...

  2. #272
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Using that analogy, what if you had a contractor that told you your building would fall down if it wasnt reinforced, and you consulted 99 others - and 97 of those 100 said yes, its going to fall unless you fix it.

    Would you poll passersby on the street and if only 20% agreed with the contractors, would you feel comfortable moving your kids and family in to the house?
    But it doesn't work like that. If a local scam artist contractor tells me my house will fall down unless I fix it, I will get a second opinion. If 97% of 10 other scam artists tell me the same thing while experts who have no personal interest in my property do not see it as a serious problem needing an immediate solution, should I listen to the 97%? Or go with common sense?

    If 97% of mechanics at one repair shop tell you that you need a new engine block for XXX $$$ and you take it to another shop for a second opinion and are told your engine block is just fine, do you go with the 97%? Or do you exercise some reasoned common sense?
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #273
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    So now the deniers will be saying the temperature has been decreasing since 1936.

    And the knuckle dragging crowd will agree.
    No, the people who can READ now realize that the NOAA fudged the numbers to make their initial assertion that July 2012 was the hottest month on record.

    And if I were you I wouldn't make fun of the " knuckle draggers ".

    Their reading comprehension seems to outpace your own on a exponential scale.

  4. #274
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    First off, I think the word you're looking for is "contend".
    Yes. Contend.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    This would be done through a transition, not all at once. The goal is isn't necessarily to close them all, but that could be the end result. The goal is to reduce carbon emissions so working towards that as best we can is better than nothing.
    Problem is all the green generation sachems fall well short of current demand, not to mention projected demand. Only way to provide the demanded base load is nuclear, but that's not popular at all, but would, however, be not be a source of carbon emissions. But you can't get it past the popular part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    The science supports the notion that global warming is mostly man made through release of Co2. There is no such thing as "proving" anything. Science is about going with the best information and evidence and right now the science strongly supports AGW, this is unlikely to change but possible.
    I'm sorry, but I just heard from your post here that you can't prove AGW, so why do you want me to spend all this money again?

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    The models are not the end all be all of AGW, this is a myth. Another myth is that the models are flat out "wrong". They have had some issues but are still the best tool we have to predict future needs and mitigation strategies.
    No, I'm not saying that the models are flat out wrong, just that they can't predict with any sort of accuracy. The models certainly can be used to identify certain aspects of climate requiring further study and modeling refinement.


    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    "Those guys" have done a great job working out a tremendous amount of science that strongly supports significant international action to combat global warming.
    If you buy into the whole thing, sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Mitigation can be done without destroying the world economies, in fact, mitigation will save us from terrible consequences that will be far more costly than preventive measures.
    Again, if you buy into the whole thing, sure.

    Until the models are of such a maturity that they can be used as a tool for progress measurement and severity estimation, how are we to know if we are doing too much? Doing too little? What if we do too much, and start another ice age? I see this as being a risk that is neglected as to being addressed.
    the Fix-is-in Bureau of Investigation

  5. #275
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    But it doesn't work like that. If a local scam artist contractor tells me my house will fall down unless I fix it, I will get a second opinion. If 97% of 10 other scam artists tell me the same thing while experts who have no personal interest in my property do not see it as a serious problem needing an immediate solution, should I listen to the 97%? Or go with common sense?

    If 97% of mechanics at one repair shop tell you that you need a new engine block for XXX $$$ and you take it to another shop for a second opinion and are told your engine block is just fine, do you go with the 97%? Or do you exercise some reasoned common sense?
    If you think scientists are scam artists, that's your problem.


    10561564_884616444892701_1946607602638187241_n.jpg
    Quote Originally Posted by Tigger View Post
    I don't want a "comprehension of science"
    Quote Originally Posted by L0neW0lf View Post
    Why aren't monkeys having human children?

  6. #276
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by ethanUNC View Post
    If you think scientists are scam artists, that's your problem.


    10561564_884616444892701_1946607602638187241_n.jpg
    I think there are scientists who are in it for the money far more than they are in it for the science. And that is not at all saying that I think scientists are scam artists nor did I say that. But there are remedies for reading dysfunction and drawing illogical conclusions and making foolish comparisons if anybody needs recommendations.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  7. #277
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Further, I'm very suspicious as to the often claimed 97% concensus.



    I'm not certain that there's 97% scientific consensus any ANYTHING.
    Of course there is. There are tons of accepted scientific explanations of phenomena that are accepted by 97%+ of scientists.

    I could name hundreds just in my small area alone.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

  8. #278
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by ethanUNC View Post
    If you think scientists are scam artists, that's your problem.


    10561564_884616444892701_1946607602638187241_n.jpg
    Mutation is not evolution. Did matter appear from nowhere and mutate to multi-celled organisms like humans? No, that theory hasn't been proven - with any certainty.

    Although 'evolution-believing' politicians haven't been as successful as 'AGW-believing' politicians in making their ideologies law...
    Last edited by cabse5; 07-21-14 at 08:03 PM.

  9. #279
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Unfortunately, that 20% are the ones who are scientifically literate.
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

  10. #280
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by cabse5 View Post
    Mutation is not evolution. Did matter appear from nowhere and mutate to multi-celled organisms like humans? No, that theory hasn't been proven - with any certainty.

    Although 'evolution-believing' politicians haven't been as successful as 'AGW-believing' politicians in making their ideologies law...
    There you go.

    My friends, I present Exhibit A. A denier who is so fundamentally ignorant of science that he denies Evolution. I bet guys like this make up half the denier ranks, too.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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