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Thread: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

  1. #241
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    I'm gonna try to make this less of a rant... This AGW argument - that man is the main (only) causer of global warming - makes no sense. Scientific evidence shows that curtailing man's pollution of the environment helps nature's ecosystems to rejuvenate. However, there are no scientific studies that prove reducing man's effect on the environment will greatly reduce effects of global warming. For example, to allow the reformation of ice at the poles for the sake of penguins and polar bears. Yet, this is the ONLY measure that environmentalists use to lessen the effects of global warming: lessen man's effect on the environment. When did environmentalists first have this dogma?

    The false argument that fossil fuels are unsustainable because they aren't currently being produced... will only be true if governments halt the refinement of fossil fuels. For example, The EPA is attempting to make refining (and transporting) fossil fuels harder and harder to do in the US .. maybe because the agency believes man is the main causer of global warming? Right now, we have an abundance of fossil fuels and are finding more pockets of fossil fuels all the time.

    There are no viable alternatives to fossil fuels to run our cars and industry, and it's been predicted that any viable alternative would take at least 30 years to develop (even if the US attempted a 'moon shot' for alternative fuels). What do we use for fuels in the mean time? Are we dependent on Middle Eastern and South American oil?
    Last edited by cabse5; 07-21-14 at 10:36 AM.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by RAMOSS View Post
    Please provide evidence that 'Global scientists are faking the evidence'. Let's see if it comes from a valid source. Is it a journalist that is hooked up with one of the libertarian think tanks that is funded by Exxon Mobile or another oil company?

    Let's see the accusation, and follow the money trail.

    The NOAA just reinstated July 1936 as the hottest month on record.

    That means their previous selection of July 2012 was based on faulty data.

    Of-course they were knowm for manipulating temperature measurements before they quietly changed their minds.

    The NOAA has already admitted to not relying on obsolute ambient measurements and to altering measurements so as to coincide with their expected results.

    In fact the only way AGW can be "proven " is through Computer models built on corrupted data.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant View Post
    Why is it odd? It is clear that the science is not concrete and a great deal of controversy still remains.

    Science is not a democracy where the majority votes on what the truth is, though at one time, centuries ago, that might have been the case.

    You may be familiar with the now discredited "Hockey Stick Theory" and some of the unfounded claims people calling themselves "scientists" have made. The Hockey Stick: A New Low in Climate Science
    Science is not a democracy? You do realize the irony of that statement when the OP is attempting to cast doubt on the legitimacy of global warming by pointing out that the majority of people don't believe in global warming? Why does the majority of what anybody has to say on a topic matter to you when you don't know anything about their qualifications?

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You could, that's true. But who are you?
    I'm a guy who can read and write English, and can therefore comprehend the words "I do/don't have qualifications in the area of nuclear physics."

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    People are entitled to their own opinions, you can disagree all you want, that doesn't make you right.
    This isn't about opinions. An example of an opinion is "Breaking Bad is terrible" or "Cardinal can dance really well," and while both examples would be really bad opinions, they're still subjective statments and thus legitimately opinions. The comment "nuclear physics isn't real," however, isn't an example of an opinion, but of a terribly uninformed statement by an uneducated person.

    But all of this is a detour from my main point of interest which is this: why are you more interested in the "opinions" of people who have no training in a scientific field than those who do? What makes you think listening to those uneducated people will give you a more informed understanding of the topic? Let's say I'm trying to get my head around the topic of fixing my car. Which method of research is going to leave me more informed on the matter, and which will make me more ignorant?

    1) Reading blogs and comments by art and philosophy majors, or
    2) Going to forums specifically dedicated to car repair or, better yet, just asking a car mechanic directly

    Now, keep in mind, people who are legitimately qualified to repair cars disagree with each other frequently, but which of those options is guaranteed to have me walking away even more of an idiot than I began?
    Last edited by Cardinal; 07-21-14 at 11:52 AM.

  5. #245
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well stated for one who obviously is a strong believer. But anecdotal evidence/examples does not substitute for the big picture that your sources do not address. Reciting the same doctrine over and over does not necessarily make it true. One reason I have such questions and doubts about the whole AGW religion is because those who embrace it are so dismissive of the really important questions asked by the skeptics, count none of the skeptics' sources as valid, and generally become highly defensive and unwilling to discuss the topic objectively. This to me smacks of indoctrination and dogma and fanaticism instead of a scientific approach.
    It is very easy to find sources on a lot of subjects. For example I can find soucres that ”proves” that the moanlanding is a hoax. If you are not an expert you can even believe it something is fishy about the moonlanding. That you have to look at the credibility of the sources, and then you can see all the scientific and credibility sources show that the moonlanding is not a hoax.


    10 Reasons the Moon Landings Could Be a Hoax - Listverse


    That if you want to look at the debate on global warming you have to first look at the diffrent sources. And if you look at this debate it only the people believing in the scientific communities that have linked to real scientific sources.


    Also it is but risk taking.That I pointed to sources that show that the cost of reducing greenhouse gases can be relative little and also have benefits for example to local communities. That at the same time doing nothing is extremly costly and dangereus according to the scientific community.


    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...hange-science/

    http://www.theguardian.com/environme...-than-adapting


    Even American military organizations warns about the national security threath of global warming.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/14/us...hers.html?_r=0

    http://www.cna.org/sites/default/files/MAB_2014.pdf

    http://www.cna.org/sites/default/fil...0-%20Print.pdf

    http://www.defense.gov/pubs/2014_Qua...nse_Review.pdf


    Should you then take the risk and do nothing?
    Last edited by Bergslagstroll; 07-21-14 at 01:19 PM.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    The psychology of deniers is intriguing. They wrap themselves in "science", in "critical thinking", but then behave in the very manner they swear the "others" are doing. No matter how well you lay it out, no matter how obvious you make the evidence to them, they cling to what they want to believe, oblivious to the very fact they are completely blind to reality.

    Its like Kitchen Nightmares where Gordon cannot get through to a stubborn owner who swears their food is good and its everyone else is the problem. Some people just are not self aware and when they surround themselves with others that parrot the same untruths there is no impetus to change, to take a step back and think for once... maybe I'm wrong? Maybe the science is actually really rock solid? What if... what if all the scientists are right? I mean... it is their job... and they almost all agree so...? Naaaaaaaaaaaah... this is all disinformation... this is all an elaborate ruse...YEAH, that jives with what I want to believe, I'll stick with that.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The NOAA just reinstated July 1936 as the hottest month on record.

    That means their previous selection of July 2012 was based on faulty data.

    Of-course they were knowm for manipulating temperature measurements before they quietly changed their minds.

    The NOAA has already admitted to not relying on obsolute ambient measurements and to altering measurements so as to coincide with their expected results.

    In fact the only way AGW can be "proven " is through Computer models built on corrupted data.
    So now the deniers will be saying the temperature has been decreasing since 1936.

    And the knuckle dragging crowd will agree.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Cardinal View Post
    Science is not a democracy? You do realize the irony of that statement when the OP is attempting to cast doubt on the legitimacy of global warming by pointing out that the majority of people don't believe in global warming? Why does the majority of what anybody has to say on a topic matter to you when you don't know anything about their qualifications?
    Climatologists do not agree on global warming and until they do it seems wise to withhold judgement. What the laypeople say is of little interest and many of the hardcore worriers appear to be 'the end is nigh' crackpots anyway.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    The NOAA just reinstated July 1936 as the hottest month on record.

    That means their previous selection of July 2012 was based on faulty data.

    Of-course they were knowm for manipulating temperature measurements before they quietly changed their minds.

    The NOAA has already admitted to not relying on obsolute ambient measurements and to altering measurements so as to coincide with their expected results.

    In fact the only way AGW can be "proven " is through Computer models built on corrupted data.
    This belief in global warming (or global cooling) is more evidence of the right/left split in many areas.

    If authority figures say that the earth is cooling, or overpopulating, the left tends to believe whereas the right is skeptical. If politicians say they will be 'transparent' the left tends to believe and the right is skeptical.

    It seems that the left is more inclined to believe authoritative figures, whether it's politicians who will promise to turn their unhappy lives around, scientists in white coats who tell them they are in a position to save the planet, or school teachers who tell them republicans are racist and anti woman.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    So now the deniers will be saying the temperature has been decreasing since 1936.

    And the knuckle dragging crowd will agree.
    Yes, there was an ice age scare during that period. 1970s Global Cooling Scare | Real Science

    Could it be, like all the other scares we were warned about, that it is a scam? Why not follow the money, or look at increased government regulations and powers they received since concocting these scare stories for a gullible public? The Overpopulation Hoax – LewRockwell.com

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