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Thread: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You asked if I have proof.
    Of what you said, yes. I asked nothing about the evidence. Can you provide it or not?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Yes I know that Co2's effect is halved upon each doubling in concentration.

    You are missing the point I'm making though that the emission of Co2 has not been linear, it is an exponential curve. From 1880 to 1980 only ~40ppm of Co2 was emitted, that's over 100 years. The vast majority of the Co2 (~110ppm) has been emitted in the last 30 years.
    I understand the amount of atmospheric CO2 has increased a lot in the last 30 years,
    but that does not change the response curve of CO2, only how fast we are pushing up the curve.
    The concept of catastrophic AGW, is based on two factors.
    The first is the direct response of CO2, based on observational data in lab experiments.
    This is where the 1.2 °C for each doubling comes from.
    The second part is based on the concept that feedback from the warming caused from the
    direct response, will be amplified to cause between .3 and 3.3 °C of additional warming.
    (Yes, their range is a factor of 11 between low and high.)
    At more than half way through the response for the first doubling,
    We are barely scrapping the low end of the prediction.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Answer to your links.

    Link 1:

    Intersting orgainization the author defends. A organization that have worked for the tobacco company. Who knows who it works for then it comes to global warming? And as I also posted before the oil companies is amongst the richest companies in the world so they can afford to support a lot of organization. Also”climategate” relates to East Anglia e-mai. I already posted a link to it and I do it again, lower down in my post.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heartland_Institute

    Link 2.
    Yes they was a fault in one paraph in a report with over 900 pages. But it doesn't change the overall findings.
    https://www.sciencenews.org/blog/sci...-glacier-error

    Link 3.
    Good respond and explanation to that.


    Global warming conspiracy theorist zombies devour Telegraph and Fox News brains | Dana Nuccitelli | Environment | theguardian.com

    Link 4.

    Already posted on that case. I know I once again link to Wikipedia, but it have a lot of reliable sources to follow up on.


    Climatic Research Unit email controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    And I can say it yet agian. That the work of IPCC is really impressive. That work is based on the work of so many scientist and so many findings, still the deniers can find so little to atack even then deniers use dirty tactics.
    Last edited by Bergslagstroll; 07-15-14 at 04:14 AM.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    And I can say it yet agian. That the work of IPCC is really impressive. That work is based on the work of so many scientist and so many findings, still the deniers can find so little to atack even then deniers use dirty tactics.
    You talk about "dirty tactics" yet adopt the dirtiest tactic of all in labeling your opponents in the debate as "deniers"...

    AGW proponents have long since abandoned any reasonable, or rational response in looking at their own biases.
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    You talk about "dirty tactics" yet adopt the dirtiest tactic of all in labeling your opponents in the debate as "deniers"...

    AGW proponents have long since abandoned any reasonable, or rational response in looking at their own biases.
    Climate change denial - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Climate change denial is a set of organized attempts to downplay, deny or dismiss the scientific consensus on the extent of global warming, its significance, and its connection to human behavior, especially for commercial or ideological reasons.[1][2] Typically, these attempts take the rhetorical form of legitimate scientific debate, while not adhering to the actual principles of that debate.[3][4] Climate change denial has been associated with the fossil fuels lobby, the Koch brothers, industry advocates and free market think tanks, often in the United States.[5][6][7][8][9] Some commentators describe climate change denial as a particular form of denialism.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Oh 'PUHLEEZE'.... wiki? Really?

    The word "denier" has traditionally been used as a pejorative in other languages usually meaning "evil unbeliever in our religion". It is a form of the argument ad hominem: the aim is not so much to refute your opponent as to discredit his motives.

    An essay published by the online "democrat & chronicle" sums it up best as far as I am concerned....

    Anyone even remotely paying attention to the debate over global warming has surely recognized that one side has simultaneously proclaimed victory and denounced the other. But few, it seems, have noticed how the language of the debate is being manipulated.

    Those who argue that human activity causes irrecoverable damage to the planet and advocate curbing carbon-based technology through governmental regulation have boldly escalated their rhetorical attacks on their opponents. We have now reached the point where anyone who expresses skepticism over the “facts” or disagrees with the litany of “solutions” (cap and trade schemes, elimination of fossil fuels, declaring carbon a pollutant) is labeled a denier.

    The sudden ubiquity of this relatively new political label signals an increased vitriol in a debate as much about politics as about science, for there is no denying that the term derives its rhetorical strength from the language of the Holocaust. The public discourse would be well-served if both sides refer to each other with the relatively neutral terms “believers” and “skeptics” and leave the Holocaust out of it.

    Web Essay: Leave Holocaust out of climate debate
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Oh 'PUHLEEZE'.... wiki? Really?

    The word "denier" has traditionally been used as a pejorative in other languages usually meaning "evil unbeliever in our religion". It is a form of the argument ad hominem: the aim is not so much to refute your opponent as to discredit his motives.

    An essay published by the online "democrat & chronicle" sums it up best as far as I am concerned....
    And this is the kind of thing that deniers do. Rather than make a rational argument built on logic and evidence you follow propaganda 101. You play the victim card, the persecution complex, compare a simple word to a phrase of an "evil unbeliever in our religion" and even the Holocaust.


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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    From highly insulting people that think that those that disagree with them are somehow just north of mentally handicapped, to the mockery of the disciple of Gorentology that comes at you with the viciousness of a typical cult member when their religion is under question, it is clear that the majority of voters in this country don't buy the lie that the case is settled, that the argument is over...

    Back to fringe obscurity GW lunatics.
    It won't be over until the earth morphs into a streaking meteor and crashes into Saturn or some out-of-our-galaxy planet in the year 8,972,567,213. Way to go gorenatics!
    Liberalism—dividing up the EARNED wealth of honest, hard working and ingenious AMERICANS and giving it to the leeches who would rather waste their worthless lives living off the government teat.
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    This is the result of ignorance. People who don't understand science but think they do. I will never understand why people think that an idea they had while looking out the window is just as valid as a scientist... A professional, a person who went to college and got a degree, who spent many years studying after college and while working in the field many years as a career.

    I've said this many times in the environmental forum and I will say it again here. Almost all of the questions about global warming can be answered simply by reading an introductory science textbook. The remaining questions can be answered by studying climate science and reading the IPCC's reports.

    If you don't know anything about these things, you should not have an opinion that you think AGW is X(anything), because you have no idea. If you are going to have an opinion at least do a bare minimum of research and learn basic science first, it is not that hard at all. If you don't do this, you are at the mercy of whatever nonsense is spewed from television, radio, the internet. It is laughably stupid and you will immediately spot it once you learn a few basic things.
    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    This is what I was getting at in my OP, the fact that people think their casual knowledge of a subject is greater than the best collective minds of the world. If I were a climate scientist with exceptional knowledge and insight in the field I would draw my own conclusions being that I am a master of the subject. However computers are my thing, I have only a cursory knowledge of climate science, only a fool with a limited knowledge of a subject thinks their opinions are likely better than thousands of scientists from the mainstream community.

    So let me ask you, are you a lifelong climate scientist? Do you have a Phd in the relevant fields? Have you spent thousands upon thousands of hours reviewing literature, peer reviewed papers? Research? If not what makes you think your opinion or that of longview is anything special? Are you guys secret master climatologists? I seriously doubt it, you're just somebody on a forum with a self appointed rebel ego because you draw your own conclusions.
    The 2 posts are in conflict with each other. If you have a basic understanding of physics and have done some basic research into AGW and find that your conclusions are at odds with the nonsense is spewed from television, radio, the internet then surely in a democracy you have the duty to hold your opinion.

    Longview's argument, which is made using a decent understanding of the science of the subject as described in the papers which the IPCC uses for the basis of it's argument, is clear. It is that there has been some warming due to increased CO2 and will be more as humanity continues to burn fossil fuel but that it will be minor as per the science and not as per the utterly unsubstantiated additional forcing which the IPCC relies upon to get their higher range figures.

    You however seem to think that it is unreasonable to base our thinking upon a detailed look at the underlying science of a situation but must follow whatever the TV tells us to.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    From highly insulting people that think that those that disagree with them are somehow just north of mentally handicapped, to the mockery of the disciple of Gorentology that comes at you with the viciousness of a typical cult member when their religion is under question, it is clear that the majority of voters in this country don't buy the lie that the case is settled, that the argument is over...

    Back to fringe obscurity GW lunatics.
    It's likely that a bunch of that 20% are also on the "it's a hoax" side. They also think it's settled.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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