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Thread: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

  1. #151
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    The variability is in a very steep zone of the curve, it is much more sensitive than say at the beginning. A small anomaly can skew the results much more than the 10% variability suggests. I would expect to see much faster warmer in the near future, 30 years is not much time for it all to play out on the steep end.
    I am telling you it is the opposite, the curve is much more weighted at the lower numbers.
    Let's go over it one more time,
    70 ppm to 140 ppm 1.2 °C (Delta 70 ppm = 1.2 °C)
    140 ppm to 280 ppm 1.2 °C (Delta 140 ppm= 1.2 °C)
    280ppm to 560 ppm 1.2 °C (Delta 280 ppm= 1.2 °C)
    560 ppm to 1120 ppm 1.2 °C (Delta 560 ppm = 1.2 °C)
    Within the steps the curve is the same, much more response occurs between
    0% and 50%, as occurs between 50% and 100%.
    Don't believe me. plot it for your self.

  2. #152
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Well, because THE SCIENTISTS THEMSELVES ARE TELLING YOU THIS.

    Climate Change: Consensus

    Expert credibility in climate change

    Scientific opinion on climate change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Climate Change Consensus? | Weather Underground

    About that consensus on global warming: 9136 agree, 1 disagrees. | The Curious Wavefunction, Scientific American Blog Network

    Maybe you want to argue on the definition of 'settled'. Its pretty clear that no scientific issue is totally settled. Evolution, gravity, electron orbitals..... all are constantly challenged and revised and improved. But the simple, basic fact that AGW exists because of CO2 and other manmade greenhouse gas emissions is not really a scientifically argued point. The magnitude of the effect is being argued, yes, but as you see above, the vast majority of scientists recognize it as a problem, and often a very large problem. And the more they understand it, the more they are concerned (although this does tend to be self-reinforcing, obviously, but thats the case in all science).

    Now to combat this point, you'll need to come up with references that show this consensus is not real, but those references need to be from scientific sources. Not blogs. Not opinion polls. Not polls of mining engineers where you pretend they are scientists. Not polls conducted by Mark Morano - political consultant to James Inhofe and now, apparently, a respected scientific figure in the denier community.

    So my question is... how can any thinking person believe this is NOT established science? Its pretty crystal clear - so much so that the scientific community is going out of their way to tell you this fact because they keep getting this odd pushback from politicians and oilmen that gullble citizens (often on the right wing...seems to be a trend) believe.
    When politicians pay for a study, they expect the result to supporr their agenda, or *gasp* they're not going to pay for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

  3. #153
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    When politicians pay for a study, they expect the result to supporr their agenda, or *gasp* they're not going to pay for it.
    Do you have proof of that, or just supposition? And does a specific politician pay for it? I'd like to see this objectively studied, if you have that information.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  4. #154
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Progressive ****s sure love to use "polls" and "studies" to shove **** down people throats - why stop now?
    A poll is useful for gauging the populations perspectives and viewpoints. Science isn't a perspective or a viewpoint. It doesn't operate based on how people "feel". Just because a large segment of Americans believe that evolution isn't true doesn't mean anything other than most people prefer to use their religion to explain reality than...well reality.

    So yeah...if most Americans believe marriage between a homosexual couple should be supported by law it makes sense for those findings to be used in discussing public policy.

    If most American believe the theory of gravity isn't true that doesn't mean public policy should be based on the fact gravity doesn't exist.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If its so scientifically accurate, why are scientists faking the evidence?
    Are they? The evidence comes from agencies all over the world in a multitude of subject matters. It's pretty universally accepted that the climate is changing, that carbon is a greenhouse gas, and that human kind is pumping a lot of carbon into the air. Those are three basic principles that science has agreed on. In addition, scientist have attempted to rule out other reasons for climate change including the amount of radiation from the sun or long term global climate patterns and have pretty much done so.

    If you believe in a widespread global conspiracy among scientist I'm not sure what we have to discuss. There is no amount of evidence anyone can provide you because according to you, all evidence is suspect, all scientist are biased, and anything other than your starting point of "climate change doesn't exist" can easily be explained away using non-scientific facts.
    “Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.” John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    ...

    Maybe you want to argue on the definition of 'settled'. Its pretty clear that no scientific issue is totally settled. Evolution, gravity, electron orbitals..... all are constantly challenged and revised and improved. But the simple, basic fact that AGW exists because of CO2 and other manmade greenhouse gas emissions is not really a scientifically argued point. The magnitude of the effect is being argued, yes, but as you see above, the vast majority of scientists recognize it as a problem, and often a very large problem. And the more they understand it, the more they are concerned (although this does tend to be self-reinforcing, obviously, but thats the case in all science).

    Now to combat this point, you'll need to come up with references that show this consensus is not real, but those references need to be from scientific sources. Not blogs. Not opinion polls. Not polls of mining engineers where you pretend they are scientists. Not polls conducted by Mark Morano - political consultant to James Inhofe and now, apparently, a respected scientific figure in the denier community.

    So my question is... how can any thinking person believe this is NOT established science?
    Its pretty crystal clear - so much so that the scientific community is going out of their way to tell you this fact because they keep getting this odd pushback from politicians and oilmen that gullble citizens (often on the right wing...seems to be a trend) believe.

    Here's why ...
    doonesbury with hansen 2.jpg

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    When politicians pay for a study, they expect the result to supporr their agenda, or *gasp* they're not going to pay for it.
    They might pay for it. . .BUT. . .the scientist will be disqualified from receiving any more grant monies or contracts. Strong incentive to produce 'evidence' useful to the politicians.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    I forgot about that. See the problem here is he took some numbers from the IPCC and then he drew conclusions himself from the data that are very different from the IPCC. I asked for backing of his conclusions and he responded by posting the source of the data which isn't in question.
    If you understand the numbers then you are allowed to draw your own conclusions. That's called freedom and we are correct to do so. If you believe that you should not draw your own conclusions from information you understand but instead only rely upon what you are told to think about them you are unfit to vote or sit on a jury.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Why conflate science with religion? Seems a strange tactic when debating science, maybe it is you that is religious about the subject. I am heartbroken though that you think I don't understand science very well.
    To clarify; I find your following of the orthodox view of global warming, or at least the alarmist one, to be religious in nature. I think this because of your unwillingness o draw your own conclusions from information which you say you understand.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    They might pay for it. . .BUT. . .the scientist will be disqualified from receiving any more grant monies or contracts. Strong incentive to produce 'evidence' useful to the politicians.
    Right...they'll give that money to a scientist that will produce the desired result.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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