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Thread: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Look at what you're modeling though, a logarithmic input and logarithmic output. One would expect almost all of the effects to come very late in the model. You're cutting it short not even halfway through the curve and saying "where is all the warming?" and drawing conclusions about the feedback loop being much less than stated.
    Actually it is the opposite, each additional unit has less effect than the one that came before it.
    CO2_response.jpg
    If you think about it much, you will agree.
    70 ppm to 140 ppm 1.2 C
    140 ppm to 280 ppm 1.2 C
    280ppm to 560 ppm 1.2 C
    560 ppm to 1120 ppm 1.2 C

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    It is fundamental - that's why I challenged the hypocrisy of your post.

    Attempts at exerting superiority, feigned or otherwise, seldom bring you converts to your side of an argument
    .

    But what it does do is tend to stick in one's mind such that they get a reputation that's easily portrayed in other parts of the site.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Apparently note everyone got the memo changing the lunacy to global climate change.
    Yup. Once one 'crisis' isn't working for them any more, and even they are embarrassed to move the goal posts in their failed models yet again, change the terminology and we're off to the races again.
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Actually it is the opposite, each additional unit has less effect than the one that came before it.
    CO2_response.jpg
    If you think about it much, you will agree.
    70 ppm to 140 ppm 1.2 C
    140 ppm to 280 ppm 1.2 C
    280ppm to 560 ppm 1.2 C
    560 ppm to 1120 ppm 1.2 C
    Yes but look at the Co2 input, it is far steeper as almost all of the Co2 has been released in the last 30 years.



    We're also at a solar minimum and the oceans are soaking up far more of the heat than we had thought. It is way, way too early to draw conclusions from your simple model and dismiss everything.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    The thread OP however was not yet another among dozens and dozens of threads inviting a debate on anthropogenic global warming. It referred to Rasumussen's poll reflecting the attitudes of the general public as to whether it is settled science and no longer subject to debate much as many look at Evolution or the Big Bang theory, etc. And obviously, based on the OP, a very large number of Americans appear to believe it is not yet settled science.

    When you have liberal newspapers no longer accepting 'letters to the editor' that reflect skepticism or denial, when you have skeptic scientists barred from the 'politically correct' scientific community, and when you have governments pushing the AGW doctrine to the max--all this in the face of failed model after failed model presented as 'evidence' by the AGW scientific proponents. . . .

    . . .and the only ones pushing this to the max are those receiving lucrative grants to study it and/or politicians who use it to increase their powers or CEOs who are making out like bandits receiving tax payer monies to promote green energy projects. . .

    . . .when you have all that, how can any thinking person believe it is 'settled science'? From my office chair, it is not settled science but becomes increasingly suspect. But then, libertarian types have never been too keen on sheep mentality generated by political correctness.
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Simply put, the credibility of the Democratic party these days is so bloodied, battered, and beaten, that any issue they trumpet is summarily dismissed by an increasing portion of the population.

    Instead of asking the question of possible climate change, they had to take monumental political leaps to put cause and blame against their political enemies. Likewise from these anything-but-objective "scientists" they've recruited. Scientific Theory be damned.

    It's transparent, overreaching, and frankly, immature. And it smells to a weary citizenry that just rolls it eyes and turns the channel.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    . . .when you have all that, how can any thinking person believe it is 'settled science'?
    Well, because THE SCIENTISTS THEMSELVES ARE TELLING YOU THIS.

    Climate Change: Consensus

    Expert credibility in climate change

    Scientific opinion on climate change - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Climate Change Consensus? | Weather Underground

    About that consensus on global warming: 9136 agree, 1 disagrees. | The Curious Wavefunction, Scientific American Blog Network

    Maybe you want to argue on the definition of 'settled'. Its pretty clear that no scientific issue is totally settled. Evolution, gravity, electron orbitals..... all are constantly challenged and revised and improved. But the simple, basic fact that AGW exists because of CO2 and other manmade greenhouse gas emissions is not really a scientifically argued point. The magnitude of the effect is being argued, yes, but as you see above, the vast majority of scientists recognize it as a problem, and often a very large problem. And the more they understand it, the more they are concerned (although this does tend to be self-reinforcing, obviously, but thats the case in all science).

    Now to combat this point, you'll need to come up with references that show this consensus is not real, but those references need to be from scientific sources. Not blogs. Not opinion polls. Not polls of mining engineers where you pretend they are scientists. Not polls conducted by Mark Morano - political consultant to James Inhofe and now, apparently, a respected scientific figure in the denier community.

    So my question is... how can any thinking person believe this is NOT established science? Its pretty crystal clear - so much so that the scientific community is going out of their way to tell you this fact because they keep getting this odd pushback from politicians and oilmen that gullble citizens (often on the right wing...seems to be a trend) believe.
    Last edited by Threegoofs; 07-14-14 at 01:15 PM.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. Theyre racists. Theyre misogynists. Theyre islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Yes but look at the Co2 input, it is far steeper as almost all of the Co2 has been released in the last 30 years.

    We're also at a solar minimum and the oceans are soaking up far more of the heat than we had thought. It is way, way too early to draw conclusions from your simple model and dismiss everything.
    The CO2 rate of change has nothing to do with the response to a given CO2 level.
    I am not dismissing anything, but rather questioning the predictions of the IPCC.
    Those predictions are based on an feedbacks which will amplify the direct response of CO2.
    From Baede et al,
    It is believed that the overall effect of the feedbacks amplifies the temperature increase
    to 1.5 to 4.5C.
    At more than 50% of the direct response, none of these predicted feedbacks are visible
    beyond the natural variability.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    I just did a poll...95% of people would not use public opinion polls to determine what is scientifically accurate. The 5% of course were unsure because they were just north of mentally handicapped.
    If its so scientifically accurate, why are scientists faking the evidence?
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    The CO2 rate of change has nothing to do with the response to a given CO2 level.
    I am not dismissing anything, but rather questioning the predictions of the IPCC.
    Those predictions are based on an feedbacks which will amplify the direct response of CO2.
    From Baede et al,

    At more than 50% of the direct response, none of these predicted feedbacks are visible
    beyond the natural variability.
    The variability is in a very steep zone of the curve, it is much more sensitive than say at the beginning. A small anomaly can skew the results much more than the 10% variability suggests. I would expect to see much faster warmer in the near future, 30 years is not much time for it all to play out on the steep end.

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