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Thread: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

  1. #131
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Bergslagstroll View Post
    As I already posted we see today a large global increase in both solar and wind power. I also have posted a report about community power, but of course I understand you have other things then reading a report. But maybee you have time to look at some of this positive examples.

    Inspiring stories - www.communitypower.eu

    Then it comes to meat I guess it the same in your country USA that you are constantly bombarded with advertisment for meat products especially hamburgers.You can also not choose to see them because they are for exampel on big billboards along side public roads.


    But you get pissed then I suggested atleast trying new food from countries famous for making great vegatarian and partly vegatarian dishes. As a potential way for many people to reduce C02 and also find new favorite dishesand at the same time eat more healthy. But I didn't say anything about forcing people or that people should give up meat completly.
    Don't like vegan food, don't eat vegan anything, just don't care for it. If you like it, great. More meat for me.
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  2. #132
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    Ad Hom? LoL, you're not a denier??? You never posted a source for the Al Gore quote either??? You do realize that means posting a link to a credible source right?

    Al Gore is a communicator and he has done a fine job, he deserves the Nobel absolutely.

    You've read the IPCC reports and your opinion is they are dishonest? Is your opinion important? Are you a well respected scientist? If not, nobody cares. If you want to make an argument, you need to post evidence and logic to back your claims here in the forums.
    Well maybe to some here, your post makes sense. But I am apparently too stupid to make much sense out of it, so I will leave the deciphering to somebody else. Do have a nice day.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  3. #133
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    So I was reading back and saw you had posted something about sea ice with another poster. So Al Gore said "nearly ice-free in the Summer by 2014" and if you notice the ice is most definitely following that trend. So it could be off by a few years? Is this really your big doomsday prediction that has come and gone and proves AGW is all a bunch of nonsense?

    This is just grasping at straws on your part.
    Sorry but the ice seems to be doing quite nicely. They have only been keeping records for 33 years and there are at least five other years that the ice melt exceeded this summer. So I'm sorry, but your post just doesn't hold up under scrutiny on what I have claimed or on what you are claiming. Debate points for you -zero.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

  4. #134
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    From highly insulting people that think that those that disagree with them are somehow just north of mentally handicapped, to the mockery of the disciple of Gorentology that comes at you with the viciousness of a typical cult member when their religion is under question, it is clear that the majority of voters in this country don't buy the lie that the case is settled, that the argument is over...

    Back to fringe obscurity GW lunatics.
    Apparently note everyone got the memo changing the lunacy to global climate change.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well maybe to some here, your post makes sense. But I am apparently too stupid to make much sense out of it, so I will leave the deciphering to somebody else. Do have a nice day.
    It was a reply to a post of yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Sorry but the ice seems to be doing quite nicely. They have only been keeping records for 33 years and there are at least five other years that the ice melt exceeded this summer. So I'm sorry, but your post just doesn't hold up under scrutiny on what I have claimed or on what you are claiming. Debate points for you -zero.
    Do you know what variability is? It is when the value of a variable fluctuates. The value can reach highs and lows. Generally with variability scientists look at averages and trends over time.



    See how the points go up and down? So you'll notice the last point is a bit higher than the others preceding it, so you can say "5 other years had more ice". So look at the trend, what does that look like to you?

    There's even a whole encyclopedia entry dedicated to just this phenomena of the the ice in decline.

    Arctic sea ice decline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Arctic sea ice decline describes the sea ice loss observed in recent decades in the Arctic Ocean. The IPCC AR5 report concluded with high confidence that sea ice continues to decrease in extent and there is robust evidence for the downward trend in Arctic summer sea ice extent since 1979.[1] It has been established that the region is at its warmest for at least 40.000 years and the Arctic-wide melt season has lengthened at a rate of 5  days per decade (from 1979 to 2013), dominated by a later autumn freezeup.[2] Sea ice changes have been identified as a mechanism for polar amplification.

  6. #136
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    From highly insulting people that think that those that disagree with them are somehow just north of mentally handicapped, to the mockery of the disciple of Gorentology that comes at you with the viciousness of a typical cult member when their religion is under question, it is clear that the majority of voters in this country don't buy the lie that the case is settled, that the argument is over...

    Back to fringe obscurity GW lunatics.
    Actually only 15% of Americans think GW is a hoax......




    "...The first group, "The Alarmed," is made up 16% of the public. They believe climate change is an urgent problem but have no clear idea of how to fix it.

    The second group (27%) is "The Concerned." They believe climate change is a problem but think it's more about polar bears and tiny islands than a problem that directly affects them.

    The third group, "The Cautious" (23%), are people on the fence. They haven't made up their minds whether global warming is real or if it's a man-made problem.

    The fourth group, "The Disengaged" (5%), doesn't know anything about climate change.

    The fifth group, "The Doubtful" (12%), do not think climate change is man-made. They think it's natural and poses no long-term risk.

    Leiserowitz says it's the sixth group, "The Dismissives," that is the most problematic, even though it comprises just 15% of the public.

    "They say it's a hoax, scientists are making up data, it's a U.N. conspiracy (or) Al Gore and his friends want to get rich."
    ....read..."

    Opinion: Why are we still debating climate change? - CNN.com

  7. #137
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Yank View Post
    So then you opine that the first Amendment should be rolled back and limited to what Liberal dogma permits?

    You mean like all thes phoney Green companies & folks like AlGore that need the lies to continue in order for there profits to keep coming?

    Is this not somewhat simliar to all the fudged data found in East Anglia E-mails that proves they were lying but now despite this evidence they are full steam ahead with the lies despite the evidence of lying?
    First of all I'm not an American so I have no say in your first amedment. I can just talk in general and to continue my extreme example from my last post, you can say that the moon landing is a hoax and even start your own newspaper saying that the moonl landing is a hoax. But if you want to run a serius newspaper you don't give place in your newspaper for such conspiracy belifies.

    You can look at the worlds biggest countries, and see that oil companies not green companies is on the top.

    http://www.forbes.com/global2000/#pa...r:All%20states

    East Anglia controversy is a good exampel how the wellfunded climate deniers works.

    Climatic Research Unit email controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    It is also impressive that with soo many scientists and scientist findings involved in making the IPCC report the deniers can't find so little to attack. Just look at the massive scoop of the latest report.

    Fifth Assessment Report - Climate Change 2013

  8. #138
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by Verax View Post
    I forgot about that. See the problem here is he took some numbers from the IPCC and then he drew conclusions himself from the data that are very different from the IPCC. I asked for backing of his conclusions and he responded by posting the source of the data which isn't in question.
    Actually, let's look at my reply, from Post #29.
    I cited the IPCC's link to Baede et al, as the bases for their prediction,
    Both the direct response of CO2, and the predicted additional amplified forcing.
    Included in that citation, is Baede et al number for CO2 direct response sensitivity,
    (1.2 C for each doubling).
    I cited the actual temperature record by the GISS, (.8 C since 1880)
    I cited the NOAA CO2 level. (401 ppm)
    I fit a curve to Baede et al number for CO2 sensitivity,
    and used that curve to find the direct response of CO2 at 401 ppm.
    4X(log560)-4X(log401)=.580 (this is the remaining part so) 1.2 C- .580 C= .62 C
    I then subtracted the direct response temperature for CO2 at the 401 ppm level,
    from the total observed warming,(leaving a difference of .18 C).
    Up until this point there are no conclusions, Please feel free to point out any errors in my math.
    (If there is a better curve fitting method, I will try it).
    As to conclusions, all of the catastrophic predictions from the IPCC are from the mid to high range
    of their predictions, say between 3 and 4.5 C.
    This is between 1.8 and 3.3 C above the direct response.
    We are past the halfway point of the direct response,
    and so far there is only .18 C that is not part of the direct response.
    This .18 C is only 10% of the amount necessary to reach the mid range of the
    IPCC predictions, yet the direct response level is above 50%.

  9. #139
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by mbig View Post
    The Koch brothers have done an admirable job making Climate Science into politics.
    (like Evangelicals have made Evolution 'controversial')
    Indeed, look at where that otherwise 'Science' topic is on this board: "General Political Discussion"!
    Hook, l!ne, and s!nker!
    One Science is now a populist political football.
    Many people with -0- posts in the Science section are now 'interested', even highly opinionated, in Only this one.
    Hmm. This OP too.

    As to being Highly insulting about it?
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/enviro...ntaly-ill.html
    no the IPCC did a good job of that first. the koch brothers are simply a reaction to a polictial organization making horrible models that are about 95% wrong most of the time.

  10. #140
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    Re: Only 20% Think Debate About Global Warming Is Over

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    Actually, let's look at my reply, from Post #29.
    I cited the IPCC's link to Baede et al, as the bases for their prediction,
    Both the direct response of CO2, and the predicted additional amplified forcing.
    Included in that citation, is Baede et al number for CO2 direct response sensitivity,
    (1.2 C for each doubling).
    I cited the actual temperature record by the GISS, (.8 C since 1880)
    I cited the NOAA CO2 level. (401 ppm)
    I fit a curve to Baede et al number for CO2 sensitivity,
    and used that curve to find the direct response of CO2 at 401 ppm.

    I then subtracted the direct response temperature for CO2 at the 401 ppm level,
    from the total observed warming,(leaving a difference of .18 C).
    Up until this point there are no conclusions, Please feel free to point out any errors in my math.
    (If there is a better curve fitting method, I will try it).
    As to conclusions, all of the catastrophic predictions from the IPCC are from the mid to high range
    of their predictions, say between 3 and 4.5 C.
    This is between 1.8 and 3.3 C above the direct response.
    We are past the halfway point of the direct response,
    and so far there is only .18 C that is not part of the direct response.
    This .18 C is only 10% of the amount necessary to reach the mid range of the
    IPCC predictions, yet the direct response level is above 50%.
    Look at what you're modeling though, a logarithmic input and logarithmic output. One would expect almost all of the effects to come very late in the model. You're cutting it short not even halfway through the curve and saying "where is all the warming?" and drawing conclusions about the feedback loop being much less than stated.

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