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Thread: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

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    Re: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Left over degrading and not growing and gathering.
    No doubt. I wondered why Saddam didn't show them to the inspectors. He would still be in power.

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    Re: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    No doubt. I wondered why Saddam didn't show them to the inspectors. He would still be in power.
    The inspectors explained that. He was between a rock and a hard place trying to make Iran think he had them whole assuring us he didn't. But in any case, having old degraded weapons was what everyone believed. Growing and gathering was the lie that wasn't supported.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    The inspectors explained that. He was between a rock and a hard place trying to make Iran think he had them whole assuring us he didn't. But in any case, having old degraded weapons was what everyone believed. Growing and gathering was the lie that wasn't supported.
    Nope. I do not agree. You are reinterpreting, what went on. The Security Council had demanded visits to find out what had happened to the weapons and what stage the programs were at.
    You are right that Saddam wanted to appear to be dangerous towards Iran as was reported by inner circle people after the conflict.

    But faced with the decision between certain destruction and lingering dictatorship, why did he choose defeat. That does not seem typical behavior for a survivor.
    Or did he believe Bush would not invade?

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    Re: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Nope. I do not agree. You are reinterpreting, what went on. The Security Council had demanded visits to find out what had happened to the weapons and what stage the programs were at.
    You are right that Saddam wanted to appear to be dangerous towards Iran as was reported by inner circle people after the conflict.

    But faced with the decision between certain destruction and lingering dictatorship, why did he choose defeat. That does not seem typical behavior for a survivor.
    Or did he believe Bush would not invade?
    Remember, Bush had to step outside the security council, and that inspectors felt they only needed more time. Saddam had to hope it would buy him enough to get a different outcome. Satisfy the inspectors without too much damage to his bluff. Bush didn't care to find out the truth. Invasion was the answer before the question was asked. What Saddam did made no difference at all.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Remember, Bush had to step outside the security council, and that inspectors felt they only needed more time. Saddam had to hope it would buy him enough to get a different outcome. Satisfy the inspectors without too much damage to his bluff. Bush didn't care to find out the truth. Invasion was the answer before the question was asked. What Saddam did made no difference at all.
    I again beg to differ slightly. Bush was very clear in his speech before the General Assembly, when he asked the UN to either enforce the resolution (was it 1441) or the US would. Did Saddam believe at that point that putin, Chirac and Schröder would save him with their vetos, do you think. I mean, from Poland to Singapur heads of government were taking sides with Bush.

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    Re: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, they voted to let Bush decide. Do we really want to cover that ground again? Just admit your error.
    Oh I thought it was Rumsfeld or Cheney?

    How about Powell [he voted for Obama twice ya know] ?
    32 “Whoever acknowledges me before others, I will also acknowledge before my Father in heaven. 33 But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.
    Matt. 10:32-33

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    Re: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    I again beg to differ slightly. Bush was very clear in his speech before the General Assembly, when he asked the UN to either enforce the resolution (was it 1441) or the US would. Did Saddam believe at that point that putin, Chirac and Schröder would save him with their vetos, do you think. I mean, from Poland to Singapur heads of government were taking sides with Bush.
    He had to hope. But the results also show clearly he wasn't growing and gathering, and few really believed he was. If Bush had stuck to what was believed, that there was some old degrading left over wmds, he'd have been within the truth.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

    Quote Originally Posted by WCH View Post
    Oh I thought it was Rumsfeld or Cheney?

    How about Powell [he voted for Obama twice ya know] ?
    Check with Powell. He claims he was deceived.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    He had to hope. But the results also show clearly he wasn't growing and gathering, and few really believed he was. If Bush had stuck to what was believed, that there was some old degrading left over wmds, he'd have been within the truth.
    Actually, your assumption that everyone knew that the weapons had degraded was not widely held at the time and was not really logical.
    It was not existential to Saddam that Iran believe he had chemical weapons. And since he would not show the destruction, though, Bush had said he would have to go, if he did not accept the resolution, it made sense to assume they were still functional. Of course Putin, Chirac and Schröder lead him to believe that Bush was talking big but held no stick, but the rick did remain, as the dictator found out.

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    Re: Iraq: 'terrorists' seize ex-chemical weapons site

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    And they still had had chemical weapons, when they threw out the UN inspectors in 1995 (date from memory).
    Iraq’s Chemical Warfare Program
    https://www.cia.gov/library/reports/general-reports-1/iraq_wmd_2004/chap5.html
    While a small number of old, abandoned chemical munitions have been discovered, ISG judges that Iraq unilaterally destroyed its undeclared chemical weapons stockpile in 1991.
    I may be wrong.

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