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Thread: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Thrilla View Post
    nah, it wouldn't take nukes

    conventional weapons would do the trick just fine.
    They have nukes also. If they want a fight to the finish we'll have to accept a nuclear face-off, or if we get lucky, years of guerrila war

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    The other thing I would worry about in such a conflict is the fact that a modern US carrier battle group has never really slugged it out with another major world land-based power. They're great for eviscerating soviet-era garbage flown by tinpot dictators in the third world, or supporting ground operations in such nations, but they've never really gone up against a modern air force. There's a lot of vulnerability when so much of your fighting power revolves around a single ship. Put a big enough hole in the right spot and you've destroyed 60-100+ aircraft, taken air superiority over the area, and now have a potential turkey shoot of the rest of the battlegroup. While they have their own defenses, they're big and slow. Modern missile technology has become pretty effective, and while we simulate naval warfare plenty nobody has really seen what happens when you fire 50+ missiles at an aircraft carrier. Big and slow probably means big and dead these days.
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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Depends on what you call destruction, I guess. A nuclear war is winnable, in a last-man-standing kind of way, but it'd be tough to sell the idea to people who live in a target city. Those pictures you posted took a generation of recovery. No doubt you've also seen pictures of Hiroshima days after the bomb- that's how LA and Seattle and Honolulu would look.
    It'd take grim determination on the part of a Commander-in-Chief to accept that degree of destruction in America for the sake of honouring a treaty with Taiwan.
    Completely agree. A nuclear bomb detonated in a major city would be catastrophic, even if it didn't result in complete annihilation. Still not something I'd ever want to see in my lifetime.

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Completely agree. A nuclear bomb detonated in a major city would be catastrophic, even if it didn't result in complete annihilation. Still not something I'd ever want to see in my lifetime.
    Agreed. Nukes are only effective as a threat against a non-nuclear opponent. The existence of nuclear weapons (and effective delivery vehicles) is the best insurance against war between major powers. We'll have to be satisfied with local skirmishes between proxies.
    Unless China is willing to accept a certain degree of destruction. Hmm... That'd load the MAD equation to one side.
    Last edited by Grand Mal; 07-07-14 at 11:04 PM. Reason: clarification
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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Agreed. Nukes are only effective as a threat against a non-nuclear opponent. The existence of nuclear weapons (and effective delivery vehicles) is the best insurance against war between major powers. We'll have to be satisfied with local skirmishes between proxies.
    Unless China is willing to accept a certain degree of destruction. Hmm... That'd load the MAD equation to one side.
    I think nuclear war is inevitable. Call me a pessimist, but human history shows that when man has shiny new weapons at his disposal, he uses them. It's only been like 70 years since the Hiroshima bomb. That's the blink of an eye in historic terms.

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    If we want to see what a modern nuke will do to a big city, it's unlikely we'll find out via a conflict with China. It's much more likely that the Islamic crazies that are taking over Syria and parts of Iraq will get hold of one left behind by the breakup of the Soviet Union.

    I, for one, would much rather just speculate on the aftermath.
    You don't have to agree with me. You have every right to be wrong if you want.

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    No doubt you've also seen pictures of Hiroshima days after the bomb- that's how LA and Seattle and Honolulu would look.
    Actually, no it is not. Here is a picture of Hiroshima before the war:



    Here is one from after:



    What you should pick up on is how there are structures still standing and how those structures differ from the ones that are not. I don't imagine it will take long for you to notice the problem with presuming LA or Seattle would look like Hiroshima.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    If we want to see what a modern nuke will do to a big city, it's unlikely we'll find out via a conflict with China. It's much more likely that the Islamic crazies that are taking over Syria and parts of Iraq will get hold of one left behind by the breakup of the Soviet Union.

    I, for one, would much rather just speculate on the aftermath.
    The whole loose nukes paranoia is likely exaggerated if not deliberately fabricated. Hell, if there are any nukes unaccounted for out of Russia's stockpiles I would not be surprised if it turns out they were secreted away by the Americans, the Chinese, the French, the British, or even the Israelis. No way would these things be sitting on the black market for long and no one is going to pay nearly as much money as a major nuclear power looking to take a nuke off the market and get themselves a handy off-the-books weapon in the process. Just as likely that Russia itself used the chaos to take some of its nuclear stockpile off the books. Like dirty bombs, I suspect it is basically just another shrewd propaganda technique employed to get the public behind some policy initiative or just keep them terrified and ready for anything the establishment might throw at them. All about creating the siege mentality and distracting the people from things like the hundreds of thousands of random citizens who have lengthy dossiers about them at the NSA because they were in the wrong chat room or discussion forum.
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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Actually, no it is not. Here is a picture of Hiroshima before the war:



    Here is one from after:



    What you should pick up on is how there are structures still standing and how those structures differ from the ones that are not. I don't imagine it will take long for you to notice the problem with presuming LA or Seattle would look like Hiroshima.



    The whole loose nukes paranoia is likely exaggerated if not deliberately fabricated. Hell, if there are any nukes unaccounted for out of Russia's stockpiles I would not be surprised if it turns out they were secreted away by the Americans, the Chinese, the French, the British, or even the Israelis. No way would these things be sitting on the black market for long and no one is going to pay nearly as much money as a major nuclear power looking to take a nuke off the market and get themselves a handy off-the-books weapon in the process. Just as likely that Russia itself used the chaos to take some of its nuclear stockpile off the books. Like dirty bombs, I suspect it is basically just another shrewd propaganda technique employed to get the public behind some policy initiative or just keep them terrified and ready for anything the establishment might throw at them. All about creating the siege mentality and distracting the people from things like the hundreds of thousands of random citizens who have lengthy dossiers about them at the NSA because they were in the wrong chat room or discussion forum.
    What? Humour me, tell me why Seattle or Los Angeles would look different from Hiroshima after a nuclear attack.
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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    In a war all plans go in the trash after the shooting starts.

    How many of those Chinese transports would be sunk?

    Any ideas.

    My guess is more than half of them.

    Taiwan has a well trained, motivated military.
    Last edited by shrubnose; 07-08-14 at 12:52 AM.

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    What? Humour me, tell me why Seattle or Los Angeles would look different from Hiroshima after a nuclear attack.
    Actually, he may be on to something:



    Here is another example:



    Look at the buildings that survived... all seem to have the basic cubic structure. However, if Demon of Light has ever been to any West Coast city, I'm sure he'll know that the number of houses/buildings built of light materials (wood, steel, glass) outweighs the number of houses built out of concrete. I would venture to guess that most of the houses built out of concrete in LA lay in the outskirts of the city. IMO half the houses within 10 mins of DT LA would be destroyed. Besides, if you take a look at the buildings, they look pretty burnt in the inside, so yeah, Seattle and LA wouldn't survive.
    Last edited by Hatuey; 07-08-14 at 01:21 AM.
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