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Thread: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We know what happens when you drop a nuclear bomb.... we're the only nation in history to have ever done it. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. How do those cities look today? Are they smoldering heaps of ash and destruction? Judge for yourself.









    Point is, rather than buying the hysteria and the hype, use your own eyes and ears.
    I agree, I dont think Nuclear War would wipe out all of mankind, or make this planet unlivable.

    But to be fair, those were Fission weapons.

    Now, we have FUSION weapons that use a fissile trigger the size of the Hiroshima bomb to increase the yeild from 20-25 Kilotons to 40 Megatons.

    The heat or Energy from the fissile triger fuses two Hydrogen isotopes ( Tridium and Deuterium) into Helium-3.

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We know what happens when you drop a nuclear bomb.... we're the only nation in history to have ever done it. Hiroshima and Nagasaki. How do those cities look today? Are they smoldering heaps of ash and destruction? Judge for yourself.











    Point is, rather than buying the hysteria and the hype, use your own eyes and ears.
    So you'd use nukes against a nuclear-armed enemy?
    "I did not mean that Conservatives are generally stupid people. I meant that stupid people are generally Conservatives."
    -John Stuart Mill-

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    North Korea thinks so too. At least the Chinese are closer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    I agree, I dont think Nuclear War would wipe out all of mankind, or make this planet unlivable.

    But to be fair, those were Fission weapons.

    Now, we have FUSION weapons that use a fissile trigger the size of the Hiroshima bomb to increase the yeild from 20-25 Kilotons to 40 Megatons.

    The heat or Energy from the fissile triger fuses two Hydrogen isotopes ( Tridium and Deuterium) into Helium-3.
    But is yield really the best measure of the destructiveness of a nuclear weapon? Just because it makes a bigger "boom" doesn't mean it's necessarily more dangerous.

    Let me explain. In all the MAD projections, the astronomical casualty counts come from "nuclear fallout," not from the bang provided by the bomb. So how much fallout are we talking about?

    Well, just take Hiroshima/Nagasaki and compare them with, say Three Mile Island or Chernobyl.

    The bombs used on Japan held about 150 lbs of Uranium/ 15 lbs of Plutonium respectively. I believe a modern bomb has about twice that much.

    When Chernobyl melted down, the single reactor that melted down had 180 TONS of nuclear fuel.

    We would NEVER see this amount of fallout even during the worst case scenario of a nuclear war. And while Chernobyl is still contaminated, Three Mile Island is basically fine, and here's a picture of Chernobyl today:



    Also, it's been widely documented that wildlife has almost completely returned to the site. In other words, nature has taken over the area again and is cleaning itself up.

    Oh, and only 30 people died in the Chernobyl explosion.

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Why does china want to invade Taiwan?
    Quote Originally Posted by MrVicchio View Post
    In my own experience here, people seem to ignore a posters professional experience or training if the app pro holds a view that is disagreed with.

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    So you'd use nukes against a nuclear-armed enemy?
    I didn't say that. My point was just that the MAD argument is a byproduct of Cold War hysteria, and most likely overstated.

    That said, there is no doubt that nuclear weapons are the most powerful and destructive weapons man has ever built. I wouldn't support using them unless we had a really, really good reason.

    The argument, though, that because China have nukes and the US have nukes and therefore any war between the two countries would result in mutually assured destruction is bullcrap.

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    But is yield really the best measure of the destructiveness of a nuclear weapon? Just because it makes a bigger "boom" doesn't mean it's necessarily more dangerous.

    Let me explain. In all the MAD projections, the astronomical casualty counts come from "nuclear fallout," not from the bang provided by the bomb. So how much fallout are we talking about?

    Well, just take Hiroshima/Nagasaki and compare them with, say Three Mile Island or Chernobyl.

    The bombs used on Japan held about 150 lbs of Uranium/ 15 lbs of Plutonium respectively. I believe a modern bomb has about twice that much.

    When Chernobyl melted down, the single reactor that melted down had 180 TONS of nuclear fuel.

    We would NEVER see this amount of fallout even during the worst case scenario of a nuclear war. And while Chernobyl is still contaminated, Three Mile Island is basically fine, and here's a picture of Chernobyl today:



    Also, it's been widely documented that wildlife has almost completely returned to the site. In other words, nature has taken over the area again and is cleaning itself up.

    Oh, and only 30 people died in the Chernobyl explosion.
    Hard to say.

    A Fusion weapon hasn't been set off in a large City yet, but I think it would look allot like when we Firebombed Hamburg Germany

    Except all at once with fallout.

    When you ger down to it, Nuclear weapons are just large Bombs with fallout.

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Why on Earth would China invade Taiwan?

    They have little to gain and they would undoubtedly suffer huge economic sanctions of their products which would tremendously hurt their economy. This would make the people unhappy and the leaders would have a rough go of it.
    For what? Taiwan...that is slowly moving toward closer ties with China as it is?

    Unless Taiwan suddenly gets extremely aggressive OR China has a huge economic downturn and it's leaders want to deflect blame...I would say the odds of China invading are almost nil.

    China is winning the new 'cold war' just by dominating the economic trenches.
    Just like America waited until the Soviet Union want bankrupt, China can sit around and wait for America to continue to economically crumble and then take over the top superpower spot by default.

    This Taiwan nonsense is just some Neocon fantasy.


    As for U.S. submarines (mostly comprised of old, relatively noisy by today's standards, Los Angeles-class, nuclear-powered attack submarines - diesel subs are inherently quieter then nuke subs) single-handedly stopping an invasion...I highly doubt it.

    China is only about 100 miles from Taiwan. Has the author never heard of airborne forces?
    China could gain total air superiority, drop a ton of troops to grab an airfield and then just re-enforce en masse...with only a few minutes flying time between China and Taiwan.

    IMO, short of a pledge to defend Taiwan with nukes or a HUGE U.S. military buildup on Taiwan itself, America could not stop China from invading Taiwan if the China really wanted to.
    Last edited by DA60; 07-07-14 at 07:07 PM.

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Because people are idiots. Of course China could take an island 100 miles off its own bloody coast, I don't care how many submarines we have.

    Newsflash #2.... North Korea could conquer South Korea and annihilate the US presence there as well.

    The question is, what would happen AFTER either of those scenarios. Could China take Taiwan momentarily? Yes. Could they engage the United States in a drawn-out Pacific war on several fronts? Probably not.

    Same goes for Korea.

    So the real question is, which side is willing to commit more to the cause. If the US goes all-in and says we're not letting China take Taiwan at any cost, then while they could likely take it at first, we would likely be able to take it back after a long and bloody struggle on multiple fronts.
    True enough, but unless we have mad leadership (I know), why would we want to engage China in a drawn out war on multiple fronts, with the hefty cost in blood and treasure, over an island 100 miles off their coast?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: China thinks it can defeat America in battle

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I don't believe in MAD. Personally, I think the whole nuclear annihilation argument is a giant BS scare tactic meant to prevent another world war.
    Preventing war can be a good thing!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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