Page 12 of 26 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast
Results 111 to 120 of 255

Thread: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

  1. #111
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,250

    Re: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    That's untrue. It's a lie John Williams of Shadowstats likes to tell. Let's look at the past definitions of Unemployment:
    Before 1967, it was Note that this definition does include some of what we would now call Discouraged, but it was limited to depressed regions and specifically excludes those who say they gave up due to perception of discrimination which is now part of the defintion of Discouraged.

    From 1967 to 1993 the definition was
    Note that nothing remotely resembling Discouraged is in the definition.

    And finally, the current definition since 1994 is
    Notice the only change between 1967 and current?

    What Williams is actually talking about, is that a definition of discouraged was developed in the 1970's and used in an alternate measure of underutilization. It had no time limit. In 1994 that changed so that to be marginally attached (including discouraged) you had to have looked for a job in the last 12 months. The reason that changed was that studies apparently showed that those who had stopped looking for work more than 6 months ago were no more likely to start again than those who said they didn't want a job.
    So what you are telling me is that the official unemployment rate still includes discouraged workers and the 1994 change really didn't happen?

    Interesting

    http://www.bls.gov/mlr/1995/10/art3full.pdf

  2. #112
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,250

    Re: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    because the applicants with the skill set to do them at the wages offered are not available to the work force
    or do you have another, less obvious, explanation
    Yep, the explanation is that some people would rather collect unemployment vs getting A job even though it isn't THE job. When unemployment benefits ran out they began searching for A job even though it wasn't THE job

  3. #113
    Villiage Idiot
    imagep's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Upstate SC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,580

    Re: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Yep, the explanation is that some people would rather collect unemployment vs getting A job even though it isn't THE job. When unemployment benefits ran out they began searching for A job even though it wasn't THE job
    And in 2008, millions of Americans suddenly decided to become slackers, to stop accepting job offers, and magically started preferring to draw unemployment.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  4. #114
    Sage
    j-mac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    South Carolina
    Last Seen
    12-08-17 @ 03:46 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    30,272

    Re: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

    Quote Originally Posted by imagep View Post
    And in 2008, millions of Americans suddenly decided to become slackers, to stop accepting job offers, and magically started preferring to draw unemployment.
    Suddenly? No. But over time, and with UE benefits constantly being extended, along with the roles of disability increasing, many took the easier path of just getting a check...

    The fact is that the labor participation rate is the lowest it has been in many peoples lifetimes...Do you think that is a good thing?

    Meanwhile, now this administration is opening up the borders to people looking to escape their own morass in their own countries...We have nothing to give them, and IMHO, this is to collapse the system...by design.
    Americans are so enamored of equality that they would rather be equal in slavery than unequal in freedom.

    Alexis de Tocqueville

  5. #115
    Guru
    pinqy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    4,369

    Re: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So what you are telling me is that the official unemployment rate still includes discouraged workers and the 1994 change really didn't happen?

    Interesting

    http://www.bls.gov/mlr/1995/10/art3full.pdf
    No, I'm saying discouraged were not included before 1994 either. Can you not read? Where the hell in pre-1994 definition do you see discouraged included?

    How exactly do you think that MLR article supports your false claim that discouraged were removed from the official definition?
    Therefore, since the world has still/Much good, but much less good than ill,
    And while the sun and moon endure/Luck's a chance, but trouble's sure,
    I'd face it as a wise man would,/And train for ill and not for good.

  6. #116
    Villiage Idiot
    imagep's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Upstate SC
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:20 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    23,580

    Re: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

    Quote Originally Posted by j-mac View Post
    Suddenly? No. But over time, and with UE benefits constantly being extended, along with the roles of disability increasing, many took the easier path of just getting a check...

    The fact is that the labor participation rate is the lowest it has been in many peoples lifetimes...Do you think that is a good thing?
    It's largely a demographic thing. However, it is not the lowest it has been for anyone who was born before 1978. As our society continues to age, the workforce participation rate will continue to decline, because we put no upper age limit on those who are expected to be in the workforce. Under the way that we currently measure workforce participation, my 99 year old granny who is cripple and blind is included in the group who are expected to have a job (as she is not in an institution).

    Also, as technology continues to replace the need for human labor, we will continue to see the workforce participation rate fall. When machines do our work, we don't have less of a need for workers.

    The decline in workforce participation rate didn't just start under Obama, or even the Great Bush Recession. It started even slightly before Bush took office.
    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    ...I'm not interested in debating someone who is trolling for an argument....
    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I see a big problem with the idea that whatever the majority wants is OK.

  7. #117
    Sage


    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:11 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    8,282

    Re: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Let's face it, you and all the other liberals have such low standards and ignore the details behind the numbers. What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty and such low economic standards.

    June Full-Time Jobs Plunge By Over Half A Million, Part-Time Jobs Surge By 800K, Most Since 1993 | Zero Hedge

    What wonderful results, a surge of 800,000 part time jobs and a plunge in the number of full time jobs.

    Suggest you people pay closer attention to the results and stop reading the headlines. Here is what you are ignoring


    The Obama Presidency Unravels Commentary Magazine

    Conservatives tried to tell you in 2008 you were electing an incompetent, made the same claims in 2012 where 4 million more got the message and yet there are still people here who continue to buy the Obama rhetoric. Wonder why his JAR is so low now? Hmmmm, what is it going to take to get you Obama supporters to wake up?
    Let's face it, if Mitt Romney had won the last election you would be touting these figures not only as positive, but a vindication of conservative policies. In addition, Wall Street, who hire smart people to look at the details behind the numbers, rallied 1/2% on the day after this news broke.

    Now, you try to tell us that John McCain would have had better success than Obama did, but what would McCain have done? He either would have proposed economic stimulus, the same as Obama did, or prescribe austerity -- a policy that proved to be a failure when done in Europe. What about Romney? Romney is an entitled, insulated, plutocrat who said that 47% of Americans are moochers. His policies would have been to raise taxes on that 47%, cut social spending and lower taxes on rich plutocrats like himself. None of those policies are a prescription for economic expansion. They are ideologically based voodoo economics.

    While the current job gains a good, they are not great. Why are they not great? Because in the six years plus since the Great Recession began the solution is still very simple -- ECO 101 simple but only mildly tried. As Dean Baker says, the story of this slump is remarkably simple:

    The economy was being driven by a housing bubble and the bubble burst. The combination of the loss of housing construction, due to the enormous overbuilding of the bubble years, and the loss of the consumption that had been driven by bubble generated housing wealth, created a gap in annual demand of more than $1 trillion. That's all simple and easy.
    ...
    Of course the government could do it with more spending and/or tax cuts, but since we have a religious cult in Washington that says it is better to keep millions out of work than to run deficits, this was a political impossibility. (Of course we could have a lower valued dollar to reduce the trade deficit, but economists try to ignore the $500 billion trade deficit. That's another part of the cult.)
    ...
    While Obama got a mix of fiscal expansion (about half the size economists suggested) and the Fed instituted unconventional monetary policy, nobody proposed debt relief. This wasn’t hard or unconventional economics; it was not much beyond Econ 101. But where was the GOP on all of this? They grew a new fixation with deficits and proposed the same old policy they always propose, upper-income tax-cuts. So to pretend that the GOP has some kind of prescription for lifting the economy quickly, they only prescribe the same old medicine that proved ineffective. What did you say, 'Reagan did it?' Reagan increased the deficit, increased the number of public sector workers and increased spending -- all things that the GOP kept silent for Reagan but are up-in-arms when the Democratic President tried to do it.

    2009 wasn't so far ago that we don't remember conservative claims that expansionary monetary policy would cause inflation; budget deficits will drive up interest rates and we need to reduce deficits to encourage confidence -- all while Keynesians pointed to the standard economic models, which said that money wouldn’t be inflationary in a liquidity trap, deficits wouldn’t drive up interest rates, and contractionary policy would be contractionary.

    Not only does the GOP and conservatives not have a prescription for lifting the economy quickly, their stated solutions would have made things worse.
    Last edited by MTAtech; 07-04-14 at 11:06 AM.
    "I never meant to say that the Conservatives are generally stupid. I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it." --J.S. Mill

  8. #118
    #NeverTrump
    a351's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Space Coast
    Last Seen
    09-09-17 @ 08:54 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    6,902

    Re: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

    Quote Originally Posted by Demon of Light View Post
    Full-times jobs have not increased by over 11 million, but more like 8 million. Of course, one has to consider that about 7 million people joined the working-age population in the same time period. When you include part-time jobs the overall increase has been about 11 million, but again, around 7 million people joined the working-age population. Not to mention, people who are retirement age are increasingly continuing in employment due to economic conditions. None of that is growth positive.
    That's plainly incorrect. Full-time employment bottomed out at 108 million and change at the tail end of the recession, and has since rebounded to over 119 million.

    Historical data can be found here: http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cpsatab9.htm

  9. #119
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,250

    Re: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

    Quote Originally Posted by pinqy View Post
    No, I'm saying discouraged were not included before 1994 either. Can you not read? Where the hell in pre-1994 definition do you see discouraged included?

    How exactly do you think that MLR article supports your false claim that discouraged were removed from the official definition?
    Yes, I can read, can you? Show the chart of discouraged workers prior to 1993. Discouraged workers were included in the U4 report not the U-3 which are now the official numbers released to the public. The official numbers are the U-3 and do not include discouraged workers.

  10. #120
    Sage
    Conservative's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:37 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    67,250

    Re: US economy adds 288,000 jobs in June

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    Let's face it, if Mitt Romney had won the last election you would be touting these figures not only as positive, but a vindication of conservative policies. In addition, Wall Street, who hire smart people to look at the details behind the numbers, rallied 1/2% on the day after this news broke.

    Now, you try to tell us that John McCain would have had better success than Obama did, but what would McCain have done? He either would have proposed economic stimulus, the same as Obama did, or prescribe austerity -- a policy that proved to be a failure when done in Europe. What about Romney? Romney is an entitled, insulated, plutocrat who said that 47% of Americans are moochers. His policies would have been to raise taxes on that 47%, cut social spending and lower taxes on rich plutocrats like himself. None of those policies are a prescription for economic expansion. They are ideologically based voodoo economics.

    While the current job gains a good, they are not great. Why are they not great? Because in the six years plus since the Great Recession began the solution is still very simple -- ECO 101 simple but only mildly tried. As Dean Baker says, the story of this slump is remarkably simple:

    While Obama got a mix of fiscal expansion (about half the size economists suggested) and the Fed instituted unconventional monetary policy, nobody proposed debt relief. This wasn’t hard or unconventional economics; it was not much beyond Econ 101. But where was the GOP on all of this? They grew a new fixation with deficits and proposed the same old policy they always propose, upper-income tax-cuts. So to pretend that the GOP has some kind of prescription for lifting the economy quickly, they only prescribe the same old medicine that proved ineffective. What did you say, 'Reagan did it?' Reagan increased the deficit, increased the number of public sector workers and increased spending -- all things that the GOP kept silent for Reagan but are up-in-arms when the Democratic President tried to do it.

    2009 wasn't so far ago that we don't remember conservative claims that expansionary monetary policy would cause inflation; budget deficits will drive up interest rates and we need to reduce deficits to encourage confidence -- all while Keynesians pointed to the standard economic models, which said that money wouldn’t be inflationary in a liquidity trap, deficits wouldn’t drive up interest rates, and contractionary policy would be contractionary.

    Not only does the GOP and conservatives not have a prescription for lifting the economy quickly, their stated solutions would have made things worse.
    Amazing how you know what I would be saying or doing and exactly what Mitt Romney would have done yet have no clue as to what Obama has done and totally ignore his record. Absolutely unbelievable how so many liberals simply cannot accept that they were wrong and apparently it is liberal arrogance that creates people who believe they know what is best for everyone else. There is nothing that Conservatives have done that has made things worse and it is liberals like you who are in denial of your failed ideology. this country was built on individual responsibility, individual wealth creation, and individual freedoms none of which focuses on micromanaging by the liberal bureaucrats.

    2009 wasn't that long ago when we had a Democrat President and a Democrat Congress that said they had the answers but have failed. You don't seem to grasp the reality what the high number of unemployed/under employed/discouraged workers have on the economy and monetary policy. The federal govt. pumping billions into the market each month has been offset with 20 million unemployed/under employed/discouraged not spending on the things they want but rather focused on what they need. That is what has kept inflation down. Keep praying for more and more unemployment and discouraged workers.
    Last edited by Conservative; 07-04-14 at 12:13 PM.

Page 12 of 26 FirstFirst ... 2101112131422 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •