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Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

clownboy said:
Same reasons you see all the arguments for open borders here. Some people want slave labor, and and underclass. Others are okay with creating the conditions as long as they can salve their liberal guilty mind (what about the children?).
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Wrong answer again. No congress, including republican controlled congresses subsequent to Reagan's amnesty, ever did step two. America owns our border crisis, not Obama.
 
forget the blame

it doesnt freakin matter whose to blame...left or right

i dont care!

what i do care about is finally DOING something to close off the borders

and it seems America is actually waking up to the crisis

so...you can blame pubs....you can blame dems

but i for one, am not letting this opportunity go to waste

it is TIME we actually did something, instead of just flapping our gums

and if you think either party doesnt realize this is a MAJOR voting issue for the public, you are dead wrong

this will be the decider come November

there may be a small percentage for leaving it status quo, and letting the illegals in

the far majority is shutting this puppy down, now and forever more

and the crony capitalists on both sides better get that through their scrawny little brains
 
Montecresto said:
Sorry dude. NO administration has ever taken secure borders serious. They will remain as porous throughout Obama's administration as they were in Bush's and every administration Prior. And, they will remain porous through the next administration as well. Regardless of what party holds the WH.
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You're wrong. Again, Eisenhower springs to mind. Presidents since have indeed taken border security seriously. Congress is a major sticking point every time. They serve two or more masters. The big money that wants the slave labor, the hippies who want open borders and we the people who want the borders secured.
 
Montecresto said:
Wrong answer again. No congress, including republican controlled congresses subsequent to Reagan's amnesty, ever did step two. America owns our border crisis, not Obama.
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Indeed the congress has always been the sticking point. However Obama's actions are his and what he's done has contributed significantly to our current crisis. That's all on him.
 
clownboy said:
You're wrong. Again, Eisenhower springs to mind. Presidents since have indeed taken border security seriously. Congress is a major sticking point every time. They serve two or more masters. The big money that wants the slave labor, the hippies who want open borders and we the people who want the borders secured.
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How far should be willing to go in order to secure the border?
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
How far should be willing to go in order to secure the border?
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Asked and answered soooo many times. You just don't like the answers presented.

1) Remove access to ALL services for illegals.
2) When we catch them here illegally, deport. No excuses.
3) If we catch you here illegally any future visa for you is off the table.
4) Asset forfeiture for those caught in-country. Funds to pay for their deportation.
5) Fine and/or jail anyone caught hiring illegals.
 
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Republican Rep. Mike Rogers, chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, said Sunday that wholesale changes by Congress may not be necessary and that Obama has the authority to return the children to their native countries. Obama "has tools in his toolbox" to solve quickly what most officials say has become a humanitarian crisis and to deter more children from coming to the U.S., Rogers said.

Democratic Sen. Dianne Feinstein, the author of the provision in the human trafficking law, said a change in regulations, not the law, could speed the children's return.

The law already allows the departments of Homeland Security and Health and Human Services to write regulations to deal with "exceptional circumstances" that would allow officials to return the children more quickly to their home countries, Feinstein said.

Obama may hold fix to flood of immigrant kids
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If Obama and the Dems send the illegals back, they run the risk of alienating the latino voting block by appearing insensitive. Obama asked the Reps for $3.8 billion to fix the border crisis and is getting blocked, because the Reps believe just shipping them back will spread word that coming here is no good.

Neither side really wants to fix the problem for different reasons from losing cheap labor, costing too much to losing votes.
 
clownboy said:
You're wrong. Again, Eisenhower springs to mind. Presidents since have indeed taken border security seriously. Congress is a major sticking point every time. They serve two or more masters. The big money that wants the slave labor, the hippies who want open borders and we the people who want the borders secured.
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I was born and raised on the border. IT'S NEVER BEEN SECURE! I'm glad to see you finally acknowledge big money (big business) isn't interested in secure borders and that both parties pander to big business. Don't hold your breath for secure borders, you'll perish.
 
clownboy said:
Indeed the congress has always been the sticking point. However Obama's actions are his and what he's done has contributed significantly to our current crisis. That's all on him.
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What Obama has done, or should we say, failed to do is all on him, and what every congress and president failed to do before him, is all on them, which combines to equal historic, current and future porous borders. They're NOT going to be secured.
 
clownboy said:
Asked and answered soooo many times. You just don't like the answers presented.

1) Remove access to ALL services for illegals.
2) When we catch them here illegally, deport. No excuses.
3) If we catch you here illegally any future visa for you is off the table.
4) Asset forfeiture for those caught in-country. Funds to pay for their deportation.
5) Fine and/or jail anyone caught hiring illegals.
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All that is great, but no president or congress ever has or ever will do it. I agree with you that it should be done, I agree with you that for a brief period Eisenhower positioned a thousand or so troops along the border and stayed illegal crossing somewhat for a period of time. But even during his administration, here's what was going on.



Walt Edwards, who joined the Border Patrol in 1951, tells a similar story. He says: "When we caught illegal aliens on farms and ranches, the farmer or rancher would often call and complain [to officials in El Paso]. And depending on how politically connected they were, there would be political intervention. That is how we got into this mess we are in now."

Bill Chambers, who worked for a combined 33 years for the Border Patrol and the then-called US Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS), says politically powerful people are still fueling the flow of illegals.


http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/p09s01-coop.html
 
When Americans acknowledge that BIG BUSINESS isn't interested in secure borders, and stops finger pointing back and forth across the isle, and accepts that both parties pander to big business, then maybe we can fix the problem. But then, Americans will never do that. So open borders rule the day, decade, century, whatever. Live with it.
 
Montecresto said:
When Americans acknowledge that BIG BUSINESS isn't interested in secure borders, and stops finger pointing back and forth across the isle, and accepts that both parties pander to big business, then maybe we can fix the problem. But then, Americans will never do that. So open borders rule the day, decade, century, whatever. Live with it.
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Agreed and in this case those same big business forces are using the libs to carry their water. The answer is to re-establish a working migrant visa system.

However, even big business doesn't want [legal] open borders. The break for them comes from the illegal sector. Their interest is in keeping it illegal and using the illegals.
 
clownboy said:
Already had that job, or one like it when I was younger and working my way up. But if you really want to know why at this point, you haven't been paying attention.
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Fact is. It's unrealistic to toss out 12 million people. The other fact is that they contribute to our economy. Make their status "legal resident" so they can continue being productive and the right-wingers can then go find something else to be paranoid over.
 
HenryChinaski said:
Fact is. It's unrealistic to toss out 12 million people. The other fact is that they contribute to our economy. Make their status "legal resident" so they can continue being productive and the right-wingers can then go find something else to be paranoid over.
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On that first, no it's not, and that little meme has long been countered and found lacking. No one is seriously proposing that it will happen in fell swoop. Deport them and let the liberals go obsess their guilty little minds over something else.
 
clownboy said:
On that first, no it's not, and that little meme has long been countered and found lacking. No one is seriously proposing that it will happen in fell swoop. Deport them and let the liberals go obsess their guilty little minds over something else.
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It'll never happen. And if 12 million people were somehow magically removed from the country it would **** up the economy and that is why it'll never happen.
 
HenryChinaski said:
It'll never happen. And if 12 million people were somehow magically removed from the country it would **** up the economy and that is why it'll never happen.
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Once again you trot out the busted meme. No one is suggesting it would happen all at once. As to that last, no, it would not.
 
HenryChinaski said:
Fact is. It's unrealistic to toss out 12 million people. The other fact is that they contribute to our economy. Make their status "legal resident" so they can continue being productive and the right-wingers can then go find something else to be paranoid over.
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I have a fence and gate around my house, it has nothing to do with politics. Security is a-political. Democrats and republicans alike put up fences, locks on their doors and cameras too. Borders should be no different. And then continue with a legal process of immigration. Oh the money this nation has wasted on apprehension, housing and board, transportation and deportation of persons that have illegally crossed our borders.
 
We wouldn't have to waste that money if we established asset forfeiture and fined the big businesses that hire illegals more.
 
Montecresto said:
I have a fence and gate around my house, it has nothing to do with politics. Security is a-political. Democrats and republicans alike put up fences, locks on their doors and cameras too. Borders should be no different. And then continue with a legal process of immigration. Oh the money this nation has wasted on apprehension, housing and board, transportation and deportation of persons that have illegally crossed our borders.
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Is the person who attempts to burglarize your home more likely to be an American citizen or an illegal person from South of the border or Asia?
 
HenryChinaski said:
Is the person who attempts to burglarize your home more likely to be an American citizen or an illegal person from South of the border or Asia?
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Someone missed the analogy. The person most likely to break into our country is likely an illegal alien.
 
clownboy said:
Someone missed the analogy. The person most likely to break into our country is likely an illegal alien.
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Give them legal resident status, then they're no longer illegal. Regularization rather than deportation is the better choice. Most Americans don’t want to round up millions of people who have become embedded in U.S. society. The newly legalized would resemble expatriate workers around the world. Foreign workers and residents make up about one-fifth of Switzerland’s population. Often thought of as an insular society, Switzerland actually is cosmopolitan. It can freely welcome so many foreigners because it doesn't offer citizenship alongside employment.
 
HenryChinaski said:
Give them legal resident status, then they're no longer illegal. Regularization rather than deportation is the better choice. Most Americans don’t want to round up millions of people who have become embedded in U.S. society. The newly legalized would resemble expatriate workers around the world. Foreign workers and residents make up about one-fifth of Switzerland’s population. Often thought of as an insular society, Switzerland actually is cosmopolitan. It can freely welcome so many foreigners because it doesn't offer citizenship alongside employment.
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The Swiss do not have open borders and those foreign workers are there on visa and highly regulated. And no, most Americans do want every single illegal gone. That's the sole reason congress has not done another amnesty.
 
clownboy said:
The Swiss do not have open borders and those foreign workers are there on visa and highly regulated. And no, most Americans do want every single illegal gone. That's the sole reason congress has not done another amnesty.
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The European Union allows free movement of labor throughout the continent unrelated to political rights. We would greatly benefit from expanded immigration. However, enacting the right sort of reform will remain politically difficult because that's the nature of politics. Congress should allow more people to live and work legally in America. But put off the contentious argument over who should be welcomed as fellow citizens.
 
HenryChinaski said:
The European Union allows free movement of labor throughout the continent unrelated to political rights. We would greatly benefit from expanded immigration. However, enacting the right sort of reform will remain politically difficult because that's the nature of politics. Congress should allow more people to live and work legally in America. But put off the contentious argument over who should be welcomed as fellow citizens.
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Nonsense. The EU is formed as a financial union of states. The US doesn't restrict interstate movement either.
 
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