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Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

ocean515 said:
Glad I could be of service. Care to explain why the government was advertising for escort services 6 months before the invasion made headlines?

As to motive, election years always bring out interesting efforts. Fine with me if you chose the ignorant route. That's primetime comedy. :lamo
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1) what is a credible source in your opinion?
2) what gain do you think Obama has for this grand conspiracy of immigrant children from El Salvador?

I welcome your answers if you dare try.
 
poweRob said:
1) what is a credible source in your opinion?
2) what gain do you think Obama has for this grand conspiracy of immigrant children from El Salvador?

I welcome your answers if you dare try.
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If I dare try? Climb off your mountain of self grandeur, it only serves to cheapen your posts and your credibility.

What is a credible source? It depends on the source. For me, an article in a newspaper like the NY Times or LA Times is always suspect. It only serves as a starting point for uncovering the truth.

A recent example was the LA Times eliminating California Gov. Brown calling for higher taxes when he presented his most recent budget to the state
Legislature. It just chopped that comment out of his presentation entirely. That's inexcusable, considering Brown just championed tax increases that placed California at the top of the heap.

What does the President have to gain? It's an election year, figure it out.
 
ocean515 said:
If I dare try? Climb off your mountain of self grandeur, it only serves to cheapen your posts and your credibility.

What is a credible source? It depends on the source. For me, an article in a newspaper like the NY Times or LA Times is always suspect. It only serves as a starting point for uncovering the truth.

A recent example was the LA Times eliminating California Gov. Brown calling for higher taxes when he presented his most recent budget to the state
Legislature. It just chopped that comment out of his presentation entirely. That's inexcusable, considering Brown just championed tax increases that placed California at the top of the heap.
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They wrote about his budget and didn't mention a tax? So what? Another conspiracy that leads to nowhere?

ocean515 said:
What does the President have to gain? It's an election year, figure it out.
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Sorry. I can't figure it out... which is why I asked you to explain it. What does Obama stand to gain from El Salvadorian kids crossing the border in an election year?
 
poweRob said:
They wrote about his budget and didn't mention a tax? So what? Another conspiracy that leads to nowhere?



Sorry. I can't figure it out... which is why I asked you to explain it. What does Obama stand to gain from El Salvadorian kids crossing the border in an election year?
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:lamo:lamo:lamo
 
ocean515 said:
:lamo:lamo:lamo
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I don't get it either. Obama isn't up for election, so which Congressmen or women from which states are more likely to win elections if there is a bunch of children from S. America coming across the border?
 
JasperL said:
I don't get it either. Obama isn't up for election, so which Congressmen or women from which states are more likely to win elections if there is a bunch of children from S. America coming across the border?
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Don't expect anything from this poster except more ****. I doubt you ever get a real answer.
 
ocean515 said:
ICE confirmed the placing of the request last January. Perhaps you're just attempting to confirm the level of credibility you've established? Most would try to avoid going the direction you seem content to go.
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I followed the link. They did in fact issue this request. Can you explain why this is somehow suspicious? I checked and ICE has been apprehending UAC (unaccompanied alien children) at the border for quite some time, years and years, about 20,000 per year from 09-12, and 30,000 in FY 13. Many of those are still here in custody, and need transportation AND housing, etc. as their cases wind through the system. So what's unusual about a contract to deal with an existing problem, that admittedly got worse in 2014, and which they probably anticipated would get worse, given deteriorating conditions in S. America?

BTW, the RFP says, and I quote, "There will be approximately 65,000 UAC in total: 25% local ground transport, 25% via ICE charter and 50% via commercial air." That's poorly written and therefore unclear, but seems to imply a TOTAL number in custody needing transportation of 65k. We'll exceed that easily based on current rates. It could be referring to an estimated 65,000 total trips, which doesn't seem very high, given each UAC in custody could require up to a half dozen different trips per year. Border > temp detention > long term > court > back to detention > transport to permanent home or back to S. America. Etc.

Anyway, I need you to explain why this RFP is somehow proof Obama planned this whole thing.
 
JasperL said:
I followed the link. They did in fact issue this request. Can you explain why this is somehow suspicious? I checked and ICE has been apprehending UAC (unaccompanied alien children) at the border for quite some time, years and years, about 20,000 per year from 09-12, and 30,000 in FY 13. Many of those are still here in custody, and need transportation AND housing, etc. as their cases wind through the system. So what's unusual about a contract to deal with an existing problem, that admittedly got worse in 2014, and which they probably anticipated would get worse, given deteriorating conditions in S. America?

BTW, the RFP says, and I quote, "There will be approximately 65,000 UAC in total: 25% local ground transport, 25% via ICE charter and 50% via commercial air." That's poorly written and therefore unclear, but seems to imply a TOTAL number in custody needing transportation of 65k. We'll exceed that easily based on current rates. It could be referring to an estimated 65,000 total trips, which doesn't seem very high, given each UAC in custody could require up to a half dozen different trips per year. Border > temp detention > long term > court > back to detention > transport to permanent home or back to S. America. Etc.

Anyway, I need you to explain why this RFP is somehow proof Obama planned this whole thing.
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Obama's lack of immigration enforcement and constant calls for amnesty and other such things has lead to this mess.
these kids should be deported right back to where they came from.

no they are being released into the public sometimes to illegals living in the country and are on an honor system to report to their hearing.

this is ridiculous. but hey it gives another group for liberals to pander to.
 
HenryChinaski said:
What industry do you think that illegal folks gravitate towards? Hint, it ain't working as a chemist at Abbott Labs. It's the services industry. The Services industry employees Illegal immigrants not only from Mexico and Central America but also from Asia. There's something like 1.3 million Asians here illegally. When illegal immigrants cross the border, there’s a citizen waiting to hire them and benefit in some manner from their labor and good for that as they make our economy stronger.
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Well then, if true it's another strong incentive to do everything we can to stop illegal invasion.
 
ludin said:
Obama's lack of immigration enforcement and constant calls for amnesty and other such things has lead to this mess.
these kids should be deported right back to where they came from.

no they are being released into the public sometimes to illegals living in the country and are on an honor system to report to their hearing.

this is ridiculous. but hey it gives another group for liberals to pander to.
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What does that have to do with the RFP?

And it's too bad they're not being housed in for profit prisons instead of housed with families. The prison industry was looking to illegal apprehensions as a major source of growth.

Finally, you do realize that we've got kids coming here from hellholes, some of them fleeing gangs, and other horrific conditions. Do you really think we should disregard all that and just put them on a plane, land somewhere in their former country, and set them loose with $10 and a bottle of water? It is a humanitarian crisis, really, and solutions to humanitarian crises just aren't simple.
 
clownboy said:
Well then, if true it's another strong incentive to do everything we can to stop illegal invasion.
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Or how about we start jailing farmers, hotel owners, CEOs of slaughterhouses of all kinds who employ those 'invading' the country and getting jobs and working for low pay. Bunch of illegal employers!! Seize their farms, seize their hotels! Demand accountability!!

We'd have had to arrest/fine/jail just about everyone in my neighborhood a couple of years ago - golf ball sized hail ruined pretty much every roof around here, and almost every roofing crew was full of illegals.
 
JasperL said:
What does that have to do with the RFP?

And it's too bad they're not being housed in for profit prisons instead of housed with families. The prison industry was looking to illegal apprehensions as a major source of growth.

Finally, you do realize that we've got kids coming here from hellholes, some of them fleeing gangs, and other horrific conditions. Do you really think we should disregard all that and just put them on a plane, land somewhere in their former country, and set them loose with $10 and a bottle of water? It is a humanitarian crisis, really, and solutions to humanitarian crises just aren't simple.
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then it is up to their government to get it under control and deal with the situation.

no it is not a humanitarian crisis it is an illegal immigration crisis. by allowing them to stay and not send them back you only encourage more of them to come here.

yep we put them on a plane back to their own country and fine their country for the cost. tell them we will continue to do it until they stop these kids from coming here. it isn't just kids there are over 250k illegal immigrants that have been caught because obama keeps promising amnesty and immigration reform which to liberals is amnesty.

yes this is simple. it isn't complicated. they don't belong here. you send them back.
 
JasperL said:
Or how about we start jailing farmers, hotel owners, CEOs of slaughterhouses of all kinds who employ those 'invading' the country and getting jobs and working for low pay. Bunch of illegal employers!! Seize their farms, seize their hotels! Demand accountability!!

We'd have had to arrest/fine/jail just about everyone in my neighborhood a couple of years ago - golf ball sized hail ruined pretty much every roof around here, and almost every roofing crew was full of illegals.
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i have always been for fining businesses large amounts of money for hiring undocumented and illegal workers.
 
ludin said:
i have always been for fining businesses large amounts of money for hiring undocumented and illegal workers.
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Well it is step one if we actually want to control the border. It's like the war on drugs. No matter what we do, if an illegal can come her, and improve his life, and provide for his family, with a ready job, no amount of troops at the border short of communist level permanent occupation of all 700 miles will stop them. The draw is too great.

But my main problem with the immigration thing is there is no shortage of venom towards the illegal aliens, but about the only time illegal employers are mentioned is when us libs bring it up, and then it's, "Oh, yeah, the employers should be fined, sure. In the meantime, KICK OUT THE *&%$#$%$$ ILLEGALS@!!!!"
 
JasperL said:
Well it is step one if we actually want to control the border. It's like the war on drugs. No matter what we do, if an illegal can come her, and improve his life, and provide for his family, with a ready job, no amount of troops at the border short of communist level permanent occupation of all 700 miles will stop them. The draw is too great.

But my main problem with the immigration thing is there is no shortage of venom towards the illegal aliens, but about the only time illegal employers are mentioned is when us libs bring it up, and then it's, "Oh, yeah, the employers should be fined, sure. In the meantime, KICK OUT THE *&%$#$%$$ ILLEGALS@!!!!"
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yep they should be kicked out. they are illegal and don't belong here. they have broken our laws.

if i break the law i get a ticket or go to jail.

they break the law they get citizenship. if you don't see the stupidity in that i don't know what to tell you.
 
ludin said:
then it is up to their government to get it under control and deal with the situation.

no it is not a humanitarian crisis it is an illegal immigration crisis. by allowing them to stay and not send them back you only encourage more of them to come here.

yep we put them on a plane back to their own country and fine their country for the cost. tell them we will continue to do it until they stop these kids from coming here. it isn't just kids there are over 250k illegal immigrants that have been caught because obama keeps promising amnesty and immigration reform which to liberals is amnesty.

yes this is simple. it isn't complicated. they don't belong here. you send them back.
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It's both. Do you think parents send their kids on a journey to a foreign country because it's fine where they are but they'd like for their kids to have a better chance? No. These kids are often living in hellholes where it's join a violent gang or die, and your family dies. Literally, that is their choice. If you want to say we have no responsibility for that crisis, OK, that's fine, but pretending it doesn't exist so you don't have to make that moral choice is just not an honest approach.
 
ludin said:
yep they should be kicked out. they are illegal and don't belong here. they have broken our laws.
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The illegal employers who are providing the draw for them being here, or the illegal aliens?

if i break the law i get a ticket or go to jail.

they break the law they get citizenship. if you don't see the stupidity in that i don't know what to tell you.
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As I said, I'm for enforcing our border AND interior enforcement. Sheesh, the reason the GOP really, really wants amnesty, same as democrats, is cheap foreign labor is good for business. If you want to do some good as a movement, that's the place where we can make real progress. I've heard of people trying to work in Germany for example. You can't GIVE A SPEECH there without a work permit, can't get paid 5 cents. And it's enforced.

Here, I can get in my car, drive to the first nice neighborhood, and I'll find a dozen employers of illegals in that neighborhood. As many illegal employers as there are yard crews, most likely. You know what - I don't blame the people mowing lawns and getting paid low wages. I blame the employers who make money off their labor, and who are why that guy mowing lawns is here.
 
JasperL said:
It's both. Do you think parents send their kids on a journey to a foreign country because it's fine where they are but they'd like for their kids to have a better chance? No. These kids are often living in hellholes where it's join a violent gang or die, and your family dies. Literally, that is their choice. If you want to say we have no responsibility for that crisis, OK, that's fine, but pretending it doesn't exist so you don't have to make that moral choice is just not an honest approach.
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The problem begins at the source, and that should be dealt with. But on the other hand, Obama is not one who will let a crisis go to waste and his intention is to overwhelm the system. That's why he can relax and play pool and let this go on.

The man is not stupid. This is all deliberate on his part and it's time everyone realized that, rather then believing it's incompetence or a misguided humanitarian effort.
 
JasperL said:
It's both. Do you think parents send their kids on a journey to a foreign country because it's fine where they are but they'd like for their kids to have a better chance? No. These kids are often living in hellholes where it's join a violent gang or die, and your family dies. Literally, that is their choice. If you want to say we have no responsibility for that crisis, OK, that's fine, but pretending it doesn't exist so you don't have to make that moral choice is just not an honest approach.
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But that's nothing new and it's not a excuse to drop off their poverty, disease and gang violence on innocent American communities.
 
Fenton said:
But that's nothing new and it's not a excuse to drop off their poverty, disease and gang violence on innocent American communities.
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If you want to have a civil discussion, you might not brush 12 million with the crimes of a few. We've got a few native born gang bangers and these kids are in many cases FLEEING gangs. And all these people are getting screened - we're not moving known gang bangers into houses in Idaho.
 
Grant said:
The problem begins at the source, and that should be dealt with. But on the other hand, Obama is not one who will let a crisis go to waste and his intention is to overwhelm the system. That's why he can relax and play pool and let this go on.

The man is not stupid. This is all deliberate on his part and it's time everyone realized that, rather then believing it's incompetence or a misguided humanitarian effort.
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What advantage is it to him to overwhelm the system? So he can harden the position of the GOP and make any immigration bill so toxic that nothing can pass for a generation? That's how this crisis is unfolding for Obama now. If he's playing 11 dimensional chess by ginning up a crisis, it's failing miserably to help him get to his goals.

If he was smart, he'd want a peaceful, stable border. Same reason when Bush decided to push for 'reform' he decided to crack down on the border, not open it up. That's what a cynical politician does, then when the amnesty passes, THAT is when you cut ICE by half if you want to bring down the U.S. of A. and make it into a third world state so Obama becomes dictator for life, etc.
 
imo, they had no idea this was going to blow up this badly

my "guess" is that they wanted the pubs to look mean spirited, and anti immigration

maybe they thought the pictures of thousands of kids would change the attitudes of americans

what they failed to think about was that we have enough issues of our own right now

and those arent being solved.....why would the american public want to add to their already loaded plate of problems

i know....all speculation....but i bet a few on here agree with theory
 
gdgyva said:
imo, they had no idea this was going to blow up this badly

my "guess" is that they wanted the pubs to look mean spirited, and anti immigration

maybe they thought the pictures of thousands of kids would change the attitudes of americans

what they failed to think about was that we have enough issues of our own right now

and those arent being solved.....why would the american public want to add to their already loaded plate of problems

i know....all speculation....but i bet a few on here agree with theory
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Your watching a charade, the same one you've been looking at for decades if you've been around. NO administration, party or congress has ever taken this bull by the horns. The partisan finger pointing you see around here only damages chances for a solution. You will NOT see this border secure, it never has been, and it never will be. Big business has no good use for open borders, both parties quite naturally pander to big business. Dems do nothing to secure our borders while GOPer's slap them around for it. And then they proceed to do nothing when they hold the WH.
 
JasperL said:
It's both. Do you think parents send their kids on a journey to a foreign country because it's fine where they are but they'd like for their kids to have a better chance? No. These kids are often living in hellholes where it's join a violent gang or die, and your family dies. Literally, that is their choice. If you want to say we have no responsibility for that crisis, OK, that's fine, but pretending it doesn't exist so you don't have to make that moral choice is just not an honest approach.
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No we don't have a responsibility for that. It is up to their government to get it under control.

There are already places like that in the US.

I am not pretending it doesn't exist no where did i say that. It isn't a humanitarian problem it is an illegal immigration problem. that is what we as the US have to deal with.
I am sorry their country is a POS that doesn't mean we take everyone in that lives like that. we don't have the economy or the resources.

We send them back to where they belong and urge their government to stop and fix their country.

we have laws. if they want to come here fine but they have to do it legally.
 
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