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Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

justabubba said:
in an economy where we need more workers it does make sense to expand the numbers of legal immigrants who are allowed to immigrate
but that is not our present circumstance. we have an over-abundance of under-skilled citizens. they need work. but their opportunities for employment are diminished by each illegal alien who is holding a job
we deprive our own citizens an opportunity for work by allowing illegals to remain employed
now, for business owners who are looking to maximize profitability, i can appreciate that the availability of low wage workers helps them meet those profitability goals. but it does so to the diminishment of our own citizens. and that is very wrong
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How many of our low skilled citizens will work in the meat packing industry on an slaughter house assembly line driving bolts into cattle's heads? These types of jobs have always been worked by immigrants. They work jobs that American citizens turn their noses up at.
 
ocean515 said:
Perhaps you missed the fact that I did not blame all of the immigration problems on President Obama. What I did do is offer that the policies he has adopted and that he has directed through EO's has taken the problem to a new level.

When Sen. Pelosi is on the border welcoming the invaders with open arms, and the President is adopting unilateral "Dream Act" type responses to illegal invaders already here, one has to be willfully running away from the truth in order to view this as being on par with other administrations.
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Ok, if you want to quibble over which administrations border policies have been more injurious to American workers interests, I'll grant you Obama is number one and Reagan is number two. Now acknowledge this, while some have been worse than others, no administration has secured our borders, open borders are good for big business, the influx of illegals provides low wages and has the added benefit of driving down American workers wages. Both parties pander to big business, and that's your enemy!!
 
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Montecresto said:
Ok, if you want to quibble over which administrations border policies have been more injurious to American workers interests, ill grant you Obama is number one and Reagan is number two. Now acknowledge this, while some have been worse than others, no administration has secured our borders, open borders are good for big business, the influx of illegals provides low wages and has the added benefit of driving down American workers wages. Both parties pander to big business, and that's your enemy!!
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The Amnesty Plan Reagan signed specifically called for securing the border. Congress did not follow through with their obligation under the legislation. However, as it stands, no administration has secured the border. Frankly, it can never be secured.

I'm not in agreement with the Big Business excuse regarding illegal immigration. The facts aren't there to support the theory, although the idea does fall in the bashing big business agenda, so I understand the push. A rational guest worker program seems to be what is being supported. Blanket amnesty is a deal breaker for Republicans who value their political lives.
 
ocean515 said:
I think there has been a change in how many legal citizens view the current situation, along with the policies that have been put in place by the Obama Administration. Republican voters seem to have made it very clear they are not interested in being taken for a ride again by the lies of the Immigration Activists, and have let their representatives know.

Immigration Reform that includes amnesty is a third rail issue that a majority of registered Republicans seem willing to risk all to stop. It's a bit disingenuous to equate current policy coming from the Obama Administration to immigration efforts by previous administrations.
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Many people, including Republicans, actively object to rewarding those who break the law by entering our country illegally. It's a slap in the face to those who do follow the law and take the steps necessary to legally become a citizen, and it's an insult to those who are watching what is being done to further an agenda - and that includes many Democrats and third partiers. Only the radicals, who hope to benefit somehow, are in accord with what he's doing. Obama's job approval has been consistently dropping, with more than 65 to 70 percent of the people saying the same thing. Most pollsters are careful about getting a good mix in polling, and take pains to include all parties in their polls. The Republicans are being blamed by Obama - what else is new - but he should be concerned about the people in his own party who object to what he's doing, since they're going to have to live with the results! They are Americans first, unlike what we see going on in DC, where it's party first, and the rest be damned!

Greetings, ocean515. :2wave:
 
ocean515 said:
The Amnesty Plan Reagan signed specifically called for securing the border. Congress did not follow through with their obligation under the legislation. However, as it stands, no administration has secured the border. Frankly, it can never be secured.

I'm not in agreement with the Big Business excuse regarding illegal immigration. The facts aren't there to support the theory, although the idea does fall in the bashing big business agenda, so I understand the push. A rational guest worker program seems to be what is being supported. Blanket amnesty is a deal breaker for Republicans who value their political lives.
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Read this article to learn how big business wants open borders!

True economic liberty means more open borders - The Drum (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
 
polgara said:
Many people, including Republicans, actively object to rewarding those who break the law by entering our country illegally. It's a slap in the face to those who do follow the law and take the steps necessary to legally become a citizen, and it's an insult to those who are watching what is being done to further an agenda - and that includes many Democrats and third partiers. Only the radicals, who hope to benefit somehow, are in accord with what he's doing. Obama's job approval has been consistently dropping, with more than 65 to 70 percent of the people saying the same thing. Most pollsters are careful about getting a good mix in polling, and take pains to include all parties in their polls. The Republicans are being blamed by Obama - what else is new - but he should be concerned about the people in his own party who object to what he's doing, since they're going to have to live with the results! They are Americans first, unlike what we see going on in DC, where it's party first, and the rest be damned!

Greetings, ocean515. :2wave:
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Howdy Polgara! The "radicals" would be big business. Millions of illegal immigrants slipped through our deliberately open southern border during the Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan and Carter years. Globalization is about Big Business and open borders.
 
HenryChinaski said:
How many of our low skilled citizens will work in the meat packing industry on an slaughter house assembly line driving bolts into cattle's heads? These types of jobs have always been worked by immigrants. They work jobs that American citizens turn their noses up at.
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if illegals are not available to do those jobs for cheap, Americans will step in and perform any of those low skill jobs at a fair wage
short of engaging in immoral/illegal behavior, most of us would work for a fair wage
but if you want the work to be done cheaply, hire a illegal ... that's what they're here for
 
justabubba said:
if illegals are not available to do those jobs for cheap, Americans will step in and perform any of those low skill jobs at a fair wage
short of engaging in immoral/illegal behavior, most of us would work for a fair wage
but if you want the work to be done cheaply, hire a illegal ... that's what they're here for
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I agree. They are either going to find someone to do the work or move to where workers are present to do the work.
 
HenryChinaski said:
How many of our low skilled citizens will work in the meat packing industry on an slaughter house assembly line driving bolts into cattle's heads? These types of jobs have always been worked by immigrants. They work jobs that American citizens turn their noses up at.
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Kind of a quagmire. We want them to do the stoop labor in our fields but want them to drive back across the border before dark.

Up here in Washington state the apple growers are entirely dependent on migrant farm workers to pick their apples. It is a fact of life.

How many here have relatives that relocate to farm regions during their crop production? Or for that matter how many here follow the seasonal production of crops?
 
Paxaeon said:
`
The border between the US and Mexico is 1,989 miles long. How much are Americans willing to spend to make this border impenetrable? Consider a 4 foot fence casts between $2,700-$21,200 for one mile. (source) A 6 foot fence with barbed wire; considerably more.
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How much more?
 
Why not go after those who employ illegal immigrants, toss a few in jail? They're the ones causing the problem. I mean, talk about cynical, self-serving greed! Lock 'em up, confiscate their businesses and see how fast the whole problem gets solved.
 
HenryChinaski said:
How many of our low skilled citizens will work in the meat packing industry on an slaughter house assembly line driving bolts into cattle's heads? These types of jobs have always been worked by immigrants. They work jobs that American citizens turn their noses up at.
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maybe, just maybe they wouldnt turn their noses up at those jobs, if they had no other way to put food in their mouths

the old adage beggars cant be choosy.....

also....so many talk about minimum wage, and low paying jobs on here

if no one is willing to do at $ 9.00 an hour, the company will be forced to pay more, or shut down

it might cause some prices to spike (especially produce and meats) but it is the cure that ails all
 
Americans did every job in America before the Mexicans showed up to steal those jobs. Pretending that Americans won't do those jobs is absolute nonsense.
 
Blue_State said:
I agree. They are either going to find someone to do the work or move to where workers are present to do the work.
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and that is what we have seen, in instances where the jobs can be performed elsewhere
comparative advantage is a fundamental economic truism. why should you spend your resources fulfilling demand when it can be fulfilled elsewhere cheaper. the invisible hand is going to cause purchases to be made from the cheaper vendor

but i would submit there are a massive number of jobs that cannot be moved to where cheaper workers are available. which is why we should not allow cheaper illegals to be able to continue to work here. it depresses the wage rate for our under-skilled American citizens
 
Grand Mal said:
Why not go after those who employ illegal immigrants, toss a few in jail? They're the ones causing the problem. I mean, talk about cynical, self-serving greed! Lock 'em up, confiscate their businesses and see how fast the whole problem gets solved.
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why not instead offer a 'bounty' to those (usually co-workers) who identify to ICE the illegals who are being illegally employed. that bounty would be paid from the illegal employer's fine
 
polgara said:
Many people, including Republicans, actively object to rewarding those who break the law by entering our country illegally. It's a slap in the face to those who do follow the law and take the steps necessary to legally become a citizen, and it's an insult to those who are watching what is being done to further an agenda - and that includes many Democrats and third partiers. Only the radicals, who hope to benefit somehow, are in accord with what he's doing. Obama's job approval has been consistently dropping, with more than 65 to 70 percent of the people saying the same thing. Most pollsters are careful about getting a good mix in polling, and take pains to include all parties in their polls. The Republicans are being blamed by Obama - what else is new - but he should be concerned about the people in his own party who object to what he's doing, since they're going to have to live with the results! They are Americans first, unlike what we see going on in DC, where it's party first, and the rest be damned!


Greetings, ocean515. :2wave:
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Well stated! With the polls as the indicator, you're thoughts seem to me to be right on target. With budgets tight, revenues barely covering obligations, and people at the low end of the economic scale unsure of the future, this illegal alien issue is going to be hard for the Progressives to explain.
 
Montecresto said:
Howdy Polgara! The "radicals" would be big business. Millions of illegal immigrants slipped through our deliberately open southern border during the Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan and Carter years. Globalization is about Big Business and open borders.
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You may be right, and Ross Perot warned us about that! Business will move to wherever they can make the most money - remember when it was just Mexico, then the Latin American countries, then third world countries, and now China and India. Always moving to where they can get their product made with the cheapest labor costs with few regulations. I'm not kidding when I tell you that my heart just about broke when Levi jeans - practically an American icon - left our country! That one hurt! I used to not give a damn about where earthmovers were made, since that didn't affect me - but I do now! Why? Because our people lost their jobs because of it! I couldn't have stopped any of the businesses from moving, but when was the last time you could buy a shirt than didn't say "made in Bangladesh," or some other place most people couldn't find on a map, because they would work for 50 cents an hour, and were happy to make it?

Perhaps we were spoiled after WW2, when we were just about the only country on the planet that was producing anything, and we learned that we were thought of as "arrogant Americans." It was about the same time that we insisted on our "favored nation" designation, where everybody had to use American dollars, just so they could buy things. Well, that appears to be coming to an end, and we aren't going to like it at all when it does - I can practically guarantee that! Those in the know are predicting at least a 25 percent drop in our standard of living, for one thing, and possible very high inflation. So what's going to happen to the people who are barely scraping by now?

I need lunch - and a stiff drink - because now I'm getting depressed! :mrgreen:

Greetings, Montecresto. :2wave:.
 
Maenad said:
The Great Wall of China is 5500 miles long: How long is the Great Wall, China Great Wall Length, World Leaders Visited

I've seen it. They had lookouts at frequent intervals, and something most don't know, it is booby trapped in case anyone ever got up on it. It is even booby trapped to rid someone on a horse. I agree with the person below who said an unwatched fence would be ineffective. But what the hell is working about our current system. Do you not think that what is happening now will cost the US taxpayers far more than it would cost to build an effective guarded Great Wall type of fence? Factor in all the diseases they are bringing in, including TB, and then divide that by our already overburdened foster care system. The article I posted, I believe, says that we will be getting 120 every 72 hours. Does anyone on here do math? Does the president ****ing do math? It would not seem so.

I didn't have tremendous problem with adults coming here to actually work. But sending children in diapers is equivalent to an act of war against our system.
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I don't want to have to see a wall at the beach or go through a checkpoint to go for a swim.

And how long is the Canadian border. Have to wall that too.
 
ludin said:
wage suppression is a bigger issue. as lou dobbs said you use to earn about 15 bucks in a meat packing plant. now due to low skilled workers that rate has dropped to 8 or 9 dollars.
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So if someone crosses the border they're causing wage suppression but if a business owner takes your job across the border they're just good businessmen?
 
ocean515 said:
Well stated! With the polls as the indicator, you're thoughts seem to me to be right on target. With budgets tight, revenues barely covering obligations, and people at the low end of the economic scale unsure of the future, this illegal alien issue is going to be hard for the Progressives to explain.
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Thanks for the kind words! *hug* They'll probably give us some explanation that no one will believe, and continue doing whatever they want to do, while giving everyone the "one-finger" salute! Hell, it's already happening, and it's not even the future yet! :lol:
 
Ray410 said:
Americans did every job in America before the Mexicans showed up to steal those jobs. Pretending that Americans won't do those jobs is absolute nonsense.
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Nonsense, Immigrants (legal or otherwise) have always done the super-work that more established folks turn their backs on, especially in the meat packing industry. Read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle". Illegal immigration only got out of hand once we abandoned Eisenhower's policies, and adopted ones being put forth by the AFL-CIO.
 
What if...? said:
I don't want to have to see a wall at the beach or go through a checkpoint to go for a swim.

And how long is the Canadian border. Have to wall that too.
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maybe one day

when people stock flocking over that border,

right now, our major problem is the southern border

or do you think the canadian border allows more illegals in?
 
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