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Thread: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

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    Re: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Let's not, it was just slavery warmed over. We do need a migrant visa program that is enforceable and strictly enforced in it's treatment of migrants. We should not allow migrant families. The individual comes here, works, and is treated like any other American worker in conditions and pay, then they return home to their families.
    The Bracero program was good economically, and cut down illegal immigration by over 90%. That's not to say the program didn't have issues (like abuse), but those are bugs we can work out. A Job is a zero Sum game, Jobs however are not, because when you get to the plural, you have to consider all the conditions that make Job creation possible.
    Immigrants, even illegal ones, contribute to the conservation of Resources, they make labor costs cheaper, thus a businesses has more money to spend on other things, they can expand their enterprise, and hire Americans to do more skills-intensive work. Which is good, because most Americans aren't the low-skilled sort, they're in the middle, while immigrants are stratified into low or high. They compliment what we lack, and make more economic activity possible.
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    Re: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Employers should be able to hire whomever they choose. What we need is a modern day Bracero program in place.
    Including illegal immigrants? They must be breaking some law- if not, then it's all just for show. There's no real will to fix the situation.
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    Re: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    The Bracero program was good economically, and cut down illegal immigration by over 90%. That's not to say the program didn't have issues (like abuse), but those are bugs we can work out. A Job is a zero Sum game, Jobs however are not, because when you get to the plural, you have to consider all the conditions that make Job creation possible.
    Immigrants, even illegal ones, contribute to the conservation of Resources, they make labor costs cheaper, thus a businesses has more money to spend on other things, they can expand their enterprise, and hire Americans to do more skills-intensive work. Which is good, because most Americans aren't the low-skilled sort, they're in the middle, while immigrants are stratified into low or high. They compliment what we lack, and make more economic activity possible.
    You seem to have a picture in your mind of immigrant labor being used for nothing but picking strawberries, or digging ditches. Illegal aliens by the most part shun those jobs for much higher paying jobs in construction and manufacturing. Those are jobs formerly staffed by legal citizens.

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    Re: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Grand Mal View Post
    Including illegal immigrants? They must be breaking some law- if not, then it's all just for show. There's no real will to fix the situation.
    Yes an employer should be able hire whomever they choose. Economic protectionism has no place in a free market. America had open borders, for 140 years. America for over a century was de facto the world's largest free trade zone, and every faucet of our power and our wealth derives from that 18th and 19th century legacy. Immigrants are a boon to the economy(legal or otherwise). If adding people was simply an expense, we'd see chronic economic unemployment and growth problems every year when a large part of young Americans suddenly became old enough to join the work force, which is itself a far larger number than we get in immigrants each year, legal or illegal.
    Give a man a fish and he can eat for a day. Teach a man to fish and he can sit in a boat, drinking beer all day while you fool around with his Woman.

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    Re: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

    Quote Originally Posted by HenryChinaski View Post
    Yes an employer should be able hire whomever they choose. Economic protectionism has no place in a free market. America had open borders, for 140 years. America for over a century was de facto the world's largest free trade zone, and every faucet of our power and our wealth derives from that 18th and 19th century legacy. Immigrants are a boon to the economy(legal or otherwise). If adding people was simply an expense, we'd see chronic economic unemployment and growth problems every year when a large part of young Americans suddenly became old enough to join the work force, which is itself a far larger number than we get in immigrants each year, legal or illegal.
    Yes it did. And each new class of immigrant was given the slavery treatment. You appear to be fine with that or have otherwise ignored it. The Bracero program was nothing different. It institutionalized slavery (something FDR had absolutely no problem with) and there were still illegal aliens by the score, making things like Operation Wetback a necessity.

    Again, we do need a legitimate migrant visa. NOT to hold those folks in near slavery, but to allow them to come, work and GO HOME in a seasonal fashion. That takes significant enforcement to keep the farmers and seasonal employers from doing end runs. AND we still need to be solid on enforcement of our other immigration law.

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    Re: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    So if someone crosses the border they're causing wage suppression but if a business owner takes your job across the border they're just good businessmen?
    maybe if the government hadn't driven them across the border to begin with. they went across the border for a reason.

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    Re: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Its longer and more hospitable.

    The govt has failed miserably to stop drug importation, so...
    the canadian border is longer

    but that doesnt answer my question

    do you believe that more illegals cross the canadian border?

    do you believe more drugs cross the canadian border?

    our problem is to the south....that may not be PC, but it is true

    the estimations i have read put the number at over 300k annually crossing from the south

    that to me, is a HUGE issue
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    Re: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    My disagreement centers on who "Big Business" is supposed to be, and why they would advocate for open borders.

    In my opinion, the open borders idea is being pushed by those forces who have "Social Justice" agendas to sell.
    I think your opinion is anchored to your bias.



    Frank Keating, head of the American Bankers Association, has finally come clean about big business' ultimate immigration reform goal — totally open borders with the unrestricted movement of millions of foreign workers into the United States.

    Immigration Reform: American Bankers Association Chief Calls for Open Borders and Amnesty | Center for Immigration Studies
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    Re: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Being able to arrange for it to be legal doesn't change the fact that its functionally the same thing.
    the two remain very different, actually
    the employer who moves for lower costs of labor does so legally. our nation has no right to deprive him of that border crossing

    the employee comes here illegally in search of work. our country has an authority to deprive him of that employment. whether we have the will to exercise that authority is central to this discussion
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    Re: Protesters block buses carrying undocumented immigrants in California

    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post
    I think your opinion is anchored to your bias.



    Frank Keating, head of the American Bankers Association, has finally come clean about big business' ultimate immigration reform goal — totally open borders with the unrestricted movement of millions of foreign workers into the United States.

    Immigration Reform: American Bankers Association Chief Calls for Open Borders and Amnesty | Center for Immigration Studies
    All hail the free market. :roll
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