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Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
Not at all. A corporation should not be able to make medical decisions for their employees.
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Corporations don't, they hire people and people hired play by those corporate rules and know what they are getting into when they join the company.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Deuce said:
The ruling was deliberately made narrow.
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As opposed to ruling that are deliberately made broad? Most if not all ruling are made narrowly by the SCOTUS.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

AliHajiSheik said:
Contraception is such a narrow item, that didn't impact me either way. How exactly has the impact of this decision about Obamacare diminished it's impact on me?
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I'm not you so I cannot say. It doesn't affect me either. However the ruling puts boundaries around what a government can and cannot do - boundaries are by and large good when it comes to government.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

apdst said:
It would have never passed and the Democrats know it.
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Not yet. Game ain't over though.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

ocean515 said:
No he didn't. This has been discussed for years, so there is no reason to dredge it up again. Romneycare is a state program created by a Democrat Legislature, with many differences, and the Heritage Plan was abandoned. I appreciate how important it has been to push the narrative that Obamacare is a Republican Idea, but that's just propaganda and marketing.
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I guess I'll wait for the conversation to come up again if you don't want to dredge up the counter-argument. The claim isn't that Obamacare is identical, but that it has strong conservative roots. Thus, the opposition seems more political than ideological.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
Regardless.....the harder you make it to get contraceptives, the more likely unwanted pregnancies will occur which means increase abortions. This is true whether you like it or not. By making contraceptives harder to get, these Christian lobby groups have insured that more abortions will occur. I wonder how they feel about the blood on their hands.
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There is nor will there be blood on their hands. People get to make their own decisions still ... if there's blood on anyone's hands it's those who will agree to have abortions. Playing the victim card, so passe.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

In my Hobby Lobby, a voice over the loudspeaker said;

attention female employees, may we have your attention please,

chastity belts are now 50% and are in aisle number six, while supplies last!

attention male employees!

you'll need to keep it in your pants now because of the SCROTUS ruling!
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
Absolutely....but they now have to live with the reality that their actions will mean that religion based corporations can now refuse to provide birth control which will mean more abortions. That is just a simple fact...unintended consequences that they now have to accept.
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Perhaps. Or maybe if more people took the stand that Hobby Lobby does, abortion would again become something mostly necessary and rare. Do you really think responsible people are going to have abortions because somebody doesn't provide them with free contraceptives? Millions and millions of us lived, had kids, and dealt with life before government demanded that insurance companies provide contraceptives. We bought our own contraceptives out of our own pockets and thought nothing of it.

Do you think irresponsible people are going to behave differently or more responsibly just because Hobby Lobby pays for four additional contraceptives in addition to the dozens they don't object to?

I want to SCREAM when I hear people think that people have no responsibility for their choices and behavior if government doesn't provide all they need to be responsible.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

This is a ****ed up day. Religion enters into government. ****ed up day.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
Talk about an over-reaction. This decision has nothing to do with "forcing people to buy a commodity". That is tremendous over-reaching on your part. The reality, however, is that although contraception may be relatively inexpensive, any time you make it harder for people to get....it is going to result in less people using it. That is just common sense 101. Less use of contraceptives will mean more unwanted pregnancies....again.....simple common sense 101....whether you like it or not.
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A business should never be forced to pay to protect its employees from the consequences of unprotected sex. That's just patently stupid.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Amadeus said:
I guess I'll wait for the conversation to come up again if you don't want to dredge up the counter-argument. The claim isn't that Obamacare is identical, but that it has strong conservative roots. Thus, the opposition seems more political than ideological.
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I know what the claims are. They've been debated back and forth for years. The more problems that surface with Obamacare, the louder the voices claiming it's a Republican idea.

Forgive me if I have no interest in replaying all those years worth of debate.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Top Cat said:
This is a ****ed up day. Religion enters into government. ****ed up day.
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Just the opposite; A rogue government was blocked from attempting to control the religious beliefs of the citizens.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Ray410 said:
Just the opposite; A rogue government was blocked from attempting to control the religious beliefs of the citizens.
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Funny how they just can't see it. LOL
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Ray410 said:
Just the opposite; A rogue government was blocked from attempting to control the religious beliefs of the citizens.
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This is the day that many of us feared would come. This court has allowed religion to become part of it. I fear Roe V Wade is in serious trouble.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Amadeus said:
This is what Obama gets for trying to compromise. He should have gone with true Socialized Medicine, which would have avoided this situation.
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He couldn't pass socialized medicine within HIS OWN PARTY, which had a control over the entire congress during much of this debate. The "compromise" you speak of was not a gesture to Republicans, it was due to HIS OWN PARTY not having the votes to pass socialized medicine.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Erod said:
Funny how they just can't see it. LOL
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Funnier how you just can't see it.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Ok, what SCOTUS has ruled is that a company does not have to pay for birth control as part of their healthcare plan if it violates the religious beliefs of the company. It seems to me that only a very small number of companies would choose to not offer birth control coverage as its much cheaper to pay for contraception than to pay for child birth.

Just the same, being you can get a prescription for the pill as a generic at Target for 4 dollars, what is the big deal? It is cheaper to pay for the pill out of pocket than to pay for the prescription copay on most plans anyway.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Erod said:
Funny how they just can't see it. LOL
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No, there's nothing funny about it at all.


Tim-
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

ocean515 said:
I know what the claims are. They've been debated back and forth for years. The more problems that surface with Obamacare, the louder the voices claiming it's a Republican idea.

Forgive me if I have no interest in replaying all those years worth of debate.
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Okay, for anyone interested in looking up the history of the mandate, please follow this link:

The Tortuous History of Conservatives and the Individual Mandate - Forbes

Newt Gingrich, who was House Minority Leader in 1993, was also in favor of an individual mandate in those days. Gingrich continued to support a federal individual mandate as recently as May of last year.

It would seem that 1990s conservatives weren’t concerned with the constitutional implications of allowing Congress to force people to buy a private product. “I don’t remember that being raised at all,” Mark Pauly told Ezra Klein last year. “The way it was viewed by the Congressional Budget Office in 1994 was, effectively, as a tax…So I’ve been surprised by that argument.”
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Here's a clip of Obama proposing the federal mandate to conservatives in 2008:

 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

CalGun said:
Good for them; I like the union decision even better.
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Yes today was a great day and with the holiday coming up and this weekend is my son's bday , it's going to be a great week.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Zyphlin said:
He couldn't pass socialized medicine within HIS OWN PARTY, which had a control over the entire congress during much of this debate. The "compromise" you speak of was not a gesture to Republicans, it was due to HIS OWN PARTY not having the votes to pass socialized medicine.
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Obama didn't even try to sell it. That's the problem with centrists. They get burned on both sides.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Top Cat said:
This is the day that many of us feared would come. This court has allowed religion to become part of it. I fear Roe V Wade is in serious trouble.
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Funny how you guys fall all over yourselves to defend the religious beliefs of Muslims, Hindus, atheist, etc, but Christians just need to shut the hell up.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Top Cat said:
This is the day that many of us feared would come. This court has allowed religion to become part of it. I fear Roe V Wade is in serious trouble.
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Again, a rogue government was blocked from attempting to suppress the religious beliefs of the citizens.
 
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Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

Amadeus said:
I think Obama thought he'd have at least some conservative support, since he got the idea for the mandate from conservatives. Just saying.
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I guess Obama, like you, failed to research any history other than a cursory reading. The heritage plan that was the backbone for the proposed 1993 plan put forward by Republicans quickly lost Republican support, and by the end of that time period was widely rejected by most republicans as a viable piece of legislation. It was also one of multiple varying plans put forward by Republicans at the time. Additionally, Romney's actions in Massachusetts were oft talked about as a possible mark AGAINST his potential run of the presidency and was a topic of negativity towards him during the 2008 primaries.

Not to mention your entire argument relies on the notion that if 1% of something is in line with something you wanted over a decade ago then it doesn't matter at all what that other 99% is. The amount of differences between the 1993 bill and the ACA is SUBSTANTIAL, and some of those differences themselves are of a very substantial difference. I love chocolate chip cookies. If you throw chocolate chip cookies on top of a giant turd marinated in bleach then I'm not going to go have a bite no matter how much you got the idea for a "chocolate chip cookie" as part of the dessert from me.


But why bother with an actual reasoned look at history...it's better to mouth talking points and propaganda and hope that no one is actually knowledgable enough to call people on the bull**** they spew.
 
Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

disneydude said:
Regardless.....the harder you make it to get contraceptives, the more likely unwanted pregnancies will occur which means increase abortions. This is true whether you like it or not. By making contraceptives harder to get, these Christian lobby groups have insured that more abortions will occur. I wonder how they feel about the blood on their hands.
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You are aware that this case was only about the morning after pill and not regular oral contraception aren't you?

Oh wait your profile says liberal so it's asking way too much for you to be aware of and understand the facts of this case.

Nevermind.
 
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