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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Yes, that's all true.

    But I guess I'm a little unclear about what the point is. I guess as a libertarian you object outright any employer regulations, so I'm hesitant to start any debate with that as the starting point. But 'what they provide or do' in the workplace is broad enough to include gender based discrimination of any kind, including a head covering, or requiring women to have male escorts in public, refusing to promote them to a position where they'd be supervising men, etc. I'd oppose that, I guess you'd say the women should find another place to work.
    You made an initial fail in using that broad brush to say "any" employer regulations. Indeed there are things, especially in the areas of safety, that need to be in place and enforced. Are there safety regulations that go overboard? Hell yeah! Are there safety regulations that are just and necessary? Again hell yeah. Additionally, your post implies that I support personally what I support politically. Simply not true. I can support the woman's right to choose to have an abortion while opposing abortions themselves. Likewise, I can support an employer's right to hire and fire whomever (s)he wishes for whatever reason, while protesting their business if it is for reasons I do not agree with. As a libertarian, I believe there are some things that are for society to do for itself and not through the threat of force via law.
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I'm a woman. I spent my entire adult life trying to not get pregnant when I didn't want to be pregnant. Shockingly, it can be done...and Uncle Sam didn't help me.
    I'll just add that it's great you managed on your own. What we KNOW is about half (40-50%) of all pregnancies aren't planned, so lots of women fail, for all kinds of reasons, among them being lack of access to reliable methods of birth control, often because of cost, poor women have a hard time floating $1,000/year. But whatever the reason, we don't have to guess that there are MILLIONS of failures every year, the abortion stats bear that out, about 1.2 million per year. So what we're doing now isn't working.

    Do you think we shouldn't try anything? Seems shortsighted to me.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Well, I guess to an extent it is. Laws against murder are ONE attempt to control the population.
    ROFLMFAO!!!

    Since when is the protection of a person's right (the right to life in this case) an attempt at population control?
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'll just add that it's great you managed on your own. What we KNOW is about half (40-50%) of all pregnancies aren't planned, so lots of women fail, for all kinds of reasons, among them being lack of access to reliable methods of birth control, often because of cost, poor women have a hard time floating $1,000/year. But whatever the reason, we don't have to guess that there are MILLIONS of failures every year, the abortion stats bear that out, about 1.2 million per year. So what we're doing now isn't working.

    Do you think we shouldn't try anything? Seems shortsighted to me.
    All the money in the world, all the destructive healthcare laws or Governmental mandates for the purpose of "equality " won't force people to be responsible.
    Last edited by Fenton; 07-01-14 at 08:37 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The purpose of the ACA is to make healthcare available to more people for the purpose of improving health. Pregnancy, healthy kids, are, as I'm sure you'll agree, a big part of "healthcare" for women. So is family planning, which improves the odds mothers are ready to have and adequately care for children. In other cases preventing pregnancy is a medical necessity because pregnancy risks death for some women. Other women take contraceptives for reasons other than pregnancy prevention and the drugs have a direct effect on health like all other prescription drugs. For all these reasons, the medical community recommends contraceptives as part of a comprehensive health insurance package, along with other services like checkups and wellness visits.

    BTW, you saying the government has no responsibility (technically true as an opinion, one of many I guess) doesn't mean much, because it's a goal, reducing unwanted pregnancies, that is shared by people across the political spectrum, many of whom believe government at all levels SHOULD play a role. If you disagree, we should just ignore the number of abortions and babies born to teen mothers, etc. that's GREAT! I disagree as do most people I'd imagine.
    Do you think the ACA is going to stop teenagers from having unprotected sex?

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    ROFLMFAO!!!

    Since when is the protection of a person's right (the right to life in this case) an attempt at population control?
    You left out the rest of that quote. The point was obvious, we have all kinds of policies that attempt to shape behavior, control the population, from laws against murder to credits for just about any activity you can think of.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Do you think the ACA is going to stop teenagers from having unprotected sex?
    So we should do nothing. Got it. I disagree!

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So we should do nothing. Got it. I disagree!
    So I take that as a "no the ACA isn't going to stop teenagers from having unprotected sex".

    We are way off topic here. The topic isn't abortions. It's the Hobby Lobby ruling which has zero to do with teen sex and pregnancy.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You left out the rest of that quote. The point was obvious, we have all kinds of policies that attempt to shape behavior, control the population, from laws against murder to credits for just about any activity you can think of.
    Duh! I wasn't addressing any other part of the quote. Why include it if I'm not addressing it? Your premise fails when you attempt to substitute one type of "behavior control" for another. It is disingenuous to say that a law that is in place to "control" behavior against the violation of a right is actually for controlling population. You are taking a result and trying to call it a purpose. When you make an incorrect association like that you will be called out for it.
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I am, I'm poking fun at what looked to me like a laughably arrogant statement. Do you believe very few employees earn their pay?
    How do you know the comment you're poking fun at wasn't itself poking fun?

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