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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I'll take your repeated insults as a complete inability to discuss this issue intelligently. So I'll try to make the issue simple to understand. If you support this decision you have to either make a distinction between women's reproductive health care and anything else that someone could possibly be opposed to - OR - you have to accept the possibility of anyone or any company being able to avoid doing anything or paying anything.

    Do you have any idea how many religions there are? Do you know how many things which are immoral in various religions?????

    But.. I'll just assume you'll revert to type and bla bla bla lib bla bla bla.
    Is your reproductive healthcare now in jeopardy?

    How were you paying for it before the ACA passed?

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Well, sadly, Obama & the HHS believed they trumped the Constitution & the RFRA when they chose to ignore each one when putting out the contraception mandate. Looks like they should have done their homework before this.

    Was your employer paying for your birth control pills before the ACA was passed? Mine wasn't. I don't know anyone whose was. We all had to buy them the conventional way - with our money.
    Again, what's the difference between women's reproductive health care and everything else? If there's a difference, what is it? If there isn't than ANY Law *COULD* be voided for individuals based on religious beliefs.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Again, what's the difference between women's reproductive health care and everything else? If there's a difference, what is it? If there isn't than ANY Law *COULD* be voided for individuals based on religious beliefs.
    So? Complain to the SCOTUS. This decision seems to be getting under your skin. Ask your rep to overturn the RFRA.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by longview View Post
    I think the only reason Hobby lobby won their argument is they narrowly defined
    their objection. They did not object to contraceptives, but post conception methods.
    They may have allowed the review of the other cases, but their argument is much broader,
    and so has a lower chance of success.
    This was a 5:4 decision, and they are fading a lot of heat, I don't see they going broader.
    The order itself is crystal clear - it invalidates the 'contraception mandate' not a narrow list of options off a larger list.

    And the significance of the orders confirms this. The Catholic businesses had sued and WON their right to refuse coverage. Those cases were pending before the SC. The SC said, NO REVIEW, which has the effect of sustaining and confirming those lower court wins. So those businesses right now, today, are approved to deny coverage for all contraceptive options. There is just no debate about this. Cert. denied means the lower court ruling stands.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    I'll take your repeated insults as a complete inability to discuss this issue intelligently. So I'll try to make the issue simple to understand. If you support this decision you have to either make a distinction between women's reproductive health care and anything else that someone could possibly be opposed to - OR - you have to accept the possibility of anyone or any company being able to avoid doing anything or paying anything.

    Do you have any idea how many religions there are? Do you know how many things which are immoral in various religions?????

    But.. I'll just assume you'll revert to type and bla bla bla lib bla bla bla.
    I've discussed and argued this at length already for most of the day and I'm just not interested in doing it all over yet one more time just because some desperately butthurt liberal hasn't tortured the logic enough to suit himself.

    You lost. Get over it. If you want to try your luck with some ridiculous defiance of the law, that's your prerogative. I support your right to put it to the test. Good luck with that.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Well, sadly, Obama & the HHS believed they trumped the Constitution & the RFRA when they chose to ignore each one when putting out the contraception mandate. Looks like they should have done their homework before this.

    Was your employer paying for your birth control pills before the ACA was passed? Mine wasn't. I don't know anyone whose was. We all had to buy them the conventional way - with our money.
    From Wiki: Contraceptive mandate (United States) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Federal female contraception mandate before ACA

    Certain aspects of the contraception mandate did not start with the ACA. In December 2000, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission ruled that companies that provided prescription drugs to their employees but didn't provide birth control were in violation of Title VII of the 1964 Civil Rights Act, which prevents discrimination on the basis of sex. That opinion, which the George W. Bush administration did nothing to alter or withdraw when it took office the next month, is still in effect today – and because it relies on Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, it applies to all employers with 15 or more employees.[2] Currently, employers that don't offer prescription coverage or don't offer insurance at all are exempt, because they treat men and women equally, but the new mandate will require prescription coverage.[citation needed]

    After the EEOC opinion was approved in 2000, reproductive rights groups and employees who wanted birth control access sued employers that refused to comply. The next year, in Erickson v. Bartell Drug Co., a federal court agreed with the EEOC's reasoning. Reproductive rights groups and others used that decision as leverage to force other companies to settle lawsuits and agree to change their insurance plans to include birth control. Some subsequent court decisions echoed Erickson, and some went the other way, but the rule (absent a Supreme Court decision) remained, and over the following decade, the percentage of employer-based plans offering contraceptive coverage tripled to 90 percent

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    That's interesting and I never thought about that. But you're right. What's to stop the next POTUS from insisting that all citizens buy guns, whether they offend them or not (and whether it's his Constitutional right or not)?
    To paraphrase a true liberal (vanishing breed) on another forum: "Beware of granting sweeping powers to the government that may one day be used against you and against causes that you hold dear."

    As you can see, this whole concept is ripe for abuse: Dont like group "X" and want to weaken their standing? Mandate that they publically violate their stated beliefs. Dont worry, you can justify the mandate by draping it with "patriotism" or "women's health".

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    So? Complain to the SCOTUS. This decision seems to be getting under your skin. Ask your rep to overturn the RFRA.
    There are other religions besides yours. If you're viewing this as an ability for fundamentalist Christians to make everyone else live in a way which is more pleasing to fundamentalist Christian beliefs than you're likely to be surprised.

    What surprises me is that self proclaimed "conservatives" who have railed against judicial activism are somehow fine with money and government created legal entities suddenly achieving religious freedom.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    p.s. Alito made a very good point that refutes the specious assertion that all manner of awful things will happen now....

    Some of those same idiotic arguments were brought up about products from pigs blood, anti-depressants, etc.

    Per Alito, the government presented “no evidence that insurance plans in existence prior to the enactment of ACA excluded coverage” for items like transfusions or anesthesia. In fact, he said, there was no indication that “any significant number of employers sought exemption, on religious grounds, from any of ACA’s coverage requirements other than the contraceptive mandate.”

    Read more: Hobby Lobby decision: 5 takeaways - POLITICO.com
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    There are other religions besides yours. If you're viewing this as an ability for fundamentalist Christians to make everyone else live in a way which is more pleasing to fundamentalist Christian beliefs than you're likely to be surprised.

    What surprises me is that self proclaimed "conservatives" who have railed against judicial activism are somehow fine with money and government created legal entities suddenly achieving religious freedom.
    I have a religion? That's funny. And a new one on me since neither my husband nor I practice a religion, don't attend church, don't pray, and didn't have our 3 sons baptised and/or christened.

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