Page 84 of 129 FirstFirst ... 3474828384858694 ... LastLast
Results 831 to 840 of 1290

Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

  1. #831
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,234

    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Then you'll be happy to explain to me why it's different? Why is women's reproductive health care something that a business owner gets to object to, but military spending isn't? Or better yet, what about subsidies given to pork farmers? Should Jewish individuals be exempt from their tax dollars going towards that?
    If you want to understand the answers to your questions, you need to go to your Congressional rep to explain how taxes are collected and how the Congress has the right to collect and spend them as they see fit. Your examples aren't related to how SCOTUS applied the contraception mandate in the ACA against both the Constitution and the RFRA.

  2. #832
    Sage
    Papa bull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Last Seen
    06-25-15 @ 01:35 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    6,927

    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    Then you'll be happy to explain to me why it's different? Why is women's reproductive health care something that a business owner gets to object to, but military spending isn't? Or better yet, what about subsidies given to pork farmers? Should Jewish individuals be exempt from their tax dollars going towards that?
    First, women's reproductive healthcare wasn't the issue. That's how YOU want to dishonestly frame the issue (like a good lib).

    Second, there have been plentiful challenges to paying income taxes based on specious arguments about religious beliefs and they've all failed and you can look them up if you want but I know you don't really care.

    You can weep and wail about it all you want but if you really want to educate yourself instead of just bellyache and thrash around, read the decision. Focus on parts talking about the interests of the state. mmmkay?
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  3. #833
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,234

    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    For HL employees it's 4, for employees of other companies it will be all 20.
    Well, then they would have choices.

    They could work elsewhere if birth control is that important to them.
    They can pay for them themselves (which women did before the ACA).
    Or they can quit their jobs, collect unemployment, and sign up for the Obamacare insurance and get all of the covered birth control they want and need.

  4. #834
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:51 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,671

    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Yup, that's exactly my take on it. Apparently these 4 forms of birth control not being offered in insurance (which they weren't until the ACA anyway) is a national crisis. I don't know....
    There are other religions besides Christianity. Either you take the position that women's reproductive health care is somehow fundamentally different from everything else or you have to be willing to accept that the religious beliefs of any business owner can potentially trump any legal requirement.

  5. #835
    Guru

    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Last Seen
    12-12-17 @ 11:27 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    3,899

    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Yup, that's exactly my take on it. Apparently these 4 forms of birth control not being offered in insurance (which they weren't until the ACA anyway) is a national crisis. I don't know....
    Because Obama is far more interested in pursuing a social agenda (diminish or weaken social opponents by causing them to publically violate their religous beliefs) than he was in helping women.

    Can you imagaine the level of outrage from the left if Bush said:

    - -"All Amish must demonstrate their commitment to the defense of the USA after 9-11 by buying ammunition and taking it to a National Guard armory for use in Iraq"? and
    - "Oh, OK, in some instances, Amish pastors can hire somebody else to deliver the ammo, but most Amish need to personally provide it, and in either case, that ammo is going to be bought and delivered..."?

  6. #836
    Battle Ready
    Grim17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Southwestern U.S.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:50 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    24,139
    Blog Entries
    20

    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The problem is many pro-life people also believe many of those on that list of 16 are also abortifacients. In my area, there is widespread opposition to the pill in all its forms because the evangelicals, some of them at least, believe that can and do cause abortions in many cases. So I don't think they'd have avoided the controversy, just perhaps changed the names of the litigants. The court system is full of dozens of employers suing to deny coverage for ALL contraceptive options as well. Finally, there is just a factual disagreement about whether those 4 forms actually cause 'abortions.'

    So based on all that, I don't blame them for the decision. If they had contraceptive options greater than zero, they were sure to be the subject of intense opposition, lawsuits, etc. and so I think rationally decided to include the full list because that makes the most sense medically, and best achieves the desired outcome. IUDs are extremely effective, for example, at the very top of the list and long lasting.

    What they COULD have done is just accept the compromise offered by the House as I recall and give employers a "conscientious objection" out to any or all coverage. In retrospect, that was likely a mistake, although the compromise to the mandate is also being litigated, so even THAT wouldn't have cut off the debate, just blunted some of it.
    I respect pro-life people, as well as respect religious rights and beliefs. But in my view when it comes to the issue of preventitive contraception, they don't have a leg to stand on. Prevnting a pregnacy may be ofensive to them, but it's not a violation of their religious rights as far as I'm conserned It's one thing to end a potential life after conception, but quite another to prevent conception from happening.

    In my opinion, this case should have never reached the Supreme Court in the first place. The Obama Administration and HHS should have just removed those 4 methods of contraception, and stuck with the 16 preventitive ones. They could have avoided this controversy and prevented this decision from ever happening, but for what ever reason, they dropped the ball on this one.

  7. #837
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,234

    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Mithros View Post
    There are other religions besides Christianity. Either you take the position that women's reproductive health care is somehow fundamentally different from everything else or you have to be willing to accept that the religious beliefs of any business owner can potentially trump any legal requirement.
    Well, sadly, Obama & the HHS believed they trumped the Constitution & the RFRA when they chose to ignore each one when putting out the contraception mandate. Looks like they should have done their homework before this.

    Was your employer paying for your birth control pills before the ACA was passed? Mine wasn't. I don't know anyone whose was. We all had to buy them the conventional way - with our money.

  8. #838
    Sage
    longview's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Today @ 09:09 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    14,361

    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Wider impact of Hobby Lobby ruling? : SCOTUSblog

    There are six orders, but here is the explanation of one of them:



    Another:



    And from the ruling itself, the final order:
    I think the only reason Hobby lobby won their argument is they narrowly defined
    their objection. They did not object to contraceptives, but post conception methods.
    They may have allowed the review of the other cases, but their argument is much broader,
    and so has a lower chance of success.
    This was a 5:4 decision, and they are fading a lot of heat, I don't see they going broader.

  9. #839
    Kinky
    tres borrachos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    New England
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 03:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    39,234

    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Cryptic View Post
    Because Obama is far more interested in pursuing a social agenda (diminish or weaken social opponents by causing them to publically violate their religous beliefs) than he was in helping women.

    Can you imagaine the level of outrage from the left if Bush said:

    - -"All Amish must demonstrate their commitment to the defense of the USA after 9-11 by buying ammunition and taking it to a National Guard armory for use in Iraq"? and
    - "Oh, OK, in some instances, Amish pastors can hire somebody else to deliver the ammo, but most Amish need to personally provide it, and in either case, that ammo is going to be bought and delivered..."?
    That's interesting and I never thought about that. But you're right. What's to stop the next POTUS from insisting that all citizens buy guns, whether they offend them or not (and whether it's his Constitutional right or not)?

  10. #840
    Guru

    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:51 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    2,671

    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    First, women's reproductive healthcare wasn't the issue. That's how YOU want to dishonestly frame the issue (like a good lib).

    Second, there have been plentiful challenges to paying income taxes based on specious arguments about religious beliefs and they've all failed and you can look them up if you want but I know you don't really care.

    You can weep and wail about it all you want but if you really want to educate yourself instead of just bellyache and thrash around, read the decision. Focus on parts talking about the interests of the state. mmmkay?
    I'll take your repeated insults as a complete inability to discuss this issue intelligently. So I'll try to make the issue simple to understand. If you support this decision you have to either make a distinction between women's reproductive health care and anything else that someone could possibly be opposed to - OR - you have to accept the possibility of anyone or any company being able to avoid doing anything or paying anything.

    Do you have any idea how many religions there are? Do you know how many things which are immoral in various religions?????

    But.. I'll just assume you'll revert to type and bla bla bla lib bla bla bla.

Page 84 of 129 FirstFirst ... 3474828384858694 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •