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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

  1. #541
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    We're getting to the point where corporations have more freedoms than people.
    Take your money and go buy me a years' supply of condoms.

    If you don't, then you are exercising more freedom than (for example) the company that employs me has.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    As I posted to another person earlier, Ginsburg's dissent expresses my fear of establishment of religion in this case...

    "Would the exemption…extend to employers with religiously grounded objections to blood transfusions (Jehovah's Witnesses); antidepressants (Scientologists); medications derived from pigs, including anesthesia, intravenous fluids, and pills coated with gelatin (certain Muslims, Jews, and Hindus); and vaccinations[?]…Not much help there for the lower courts bound by today's decision."

    The scotus has fabricated a precedent where all the lower courts are now supposed to be bound by in future rulings regarding religion opting out of law... for whatever religious reason. If the scotus and the lower courts do not rule consistently on this from religion to religion regardless of any bias that that religion claims that they can now bring to the fore... then the courts are making an establishment of religion.

    It's a pick your poison situation now. Either stand by this ruling and consistently let any religious discrimination trump law, or have the courts ignore this precedent and just make **** up willy nilly... which has the side effect of saying it only applies to the one religion... violating the establishment clause.

    Either way sucks terribly and both ways can arguably be unconstitutional.
    Ginsburg is implimenting a slippery slope fallacy. the narrow ruling only allows for contraception no other restrictions.
    it doesn't apply to one religion it applies to all equally so there is no violation of the establishment clause.

    nope what was unconstitutional was government thinking that i can violate peoples religious beliefs and practices.

    again it only applies to private companies and non-publicly traded companies and it only applies to contraception.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    This ruling just seems so from the hip rather than thought out.
    What wasn't thought out was the SCOTUS ruling of Obamacare in the first place. They've created a monster and the courts will be busy for decades.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    The medical community and data contradict your baseless assertions, but that shouldn't be a barrier to making them I suppose.
    I'm curious - what "baseless assertion" did he make?[/QUOTE]

    1) Cheap and readily accessible to everyone - some are, but women can't always take the cheapest generic versions that are readily accessible to the poor. And there's a good reason why there are 20 options and not ONE or TWO.

    2) There is no reason whatsoever to make them part of health insurance - they're a basic part of healthcare for women, and an integral part. For some women, pregnancy can be life threatening because of medical conditions, and effective contraception is medically important. In those cases, and in cases where contraception is used for reasons other than pregnancy protection, they're as necessary to be covered by health insurance as antibiotics or drugs for blood pressure, blood sugar, etc. And that's if you don't accept prescription drugs/devices for pregnancy prevention and planning for pregnancies as a damn fine reason to include them as part of health insurance, like almost all other prescription drugs/devices.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Green Balls View Post
    I am not as concerned about corporations being able to deny someone the pill. I am more concerned that now corporations have the right to deny you anything based on religious freedom. For example holiday pay, bonuses, career growth, etc. This law doesn't apply to just HL, it applies to ALL corporations. This was a major middle finger to freedom of the people.
    corporations can't deny someone the pill the ruling says that they don't have to pay for that coverage if it violates a religious faith. that does not deny someone the pill or anything else. they still have the freedom to go buy it on their own.

    it also only applies to non-publicly traded companies.

    the only middle finger given was to the government thinking it can override religious freedoms.

    contraception is not protected by the constitution but religious freedoms and practices are.

    they don't as the ruling only applies to contraception and no other aspects of the law.

  6. #546
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    Spare me your righteous babble. Religion is fine, just keep it to yourself.
    do you hear yourself? Here we had the Hobby Lobby...a family owned business minding their own business and offering decent wages AND health care WITH medical needs birth control as a part of their healthcare. What changed? The BUSINESS didn't go to the government to attempt to force their will...the GOVERNMENT went to the business. The only meddling done is by government.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post

    1) Cheap and readily accessible to everyone - some are, but women can't always take the cheapest generic versions that are readily accessible to the poor. And there's a good reason why there are 20 options and not ONE or TWO.

    2) There is no reason whatsoever to make them part of health insurance - they're a basic part of healthcare for women, and an integral part. For some women, pregnancy can be life threatening because of medical conditions, and effective contraception is medically important. In those cases, and in cases where contraception is used for reasons other than pregnancy protection, they're as necessary to be covered by health insurance as antibiotics or drugs for blood pressure, blood sugar, etc. And that's if you don't accept prescription drugs/devices for pregnancy prevention and planning for pregnancies as a damn fine reason to include them as part of health insurance, like almost all other prescription drugs/devices.
    nothing in this ruling stops them from getting it but please continue the strawman.
    Last edited by ludin; 07-01-14 at 12:34 AM.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    For anyone interested, amusing commentary from TYT. Corporations are not just people, but religious people.


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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Are you seriously THAT dishonest ?

    Selective out of context quotes from a article that explicitly addresses the failure rates in reference to improper use is just dishonest.

    I'm guessing Hobby Lobby vets their employees well enough to hire intelligent, people not morons.
    What world do you live in where the failure rate of condoms in normal usage isn't widely known? But, hey, if you have any stats that show users of condoms do so perfectly, and therefore in real life the failure rate is low, low, low, cite your research!

    Here's another analysis by CDC citing 'typical use failure rate' - CDC - Contraception - Reproductive Health

    Male condom—Worn by the man, a male condom keeps sperm from getting into a woman’s body. Latex condoms, the most common type, help prevent pregnancy, and HIV and other STDs, as do the newer synthetic condoms. “Natural” or “lambskin” condoms also help prevent pregnancy, but may not provide protection against STDs, including HIV. Typical use failure rate: 18%

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    That's interesting.

    Attachment 67169043

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