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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Fabulous View Post
    The KKK's beliefs are based on hatred. Neither hatred nor the KKK has any relevance to the topic but why let that stop you from trying to project a false association in an attempt to establish "guilt by".
    That's just not necessarily true. The Court can't say that being against, say, racial integration is based on hatred and not on a sincere religious belief. I've debated people online in a local forum that make some pretty astounding religious claims against integration. I think they're nuts, but there is no doubt laws against mixed marriages were based on religious beliefs, and the Court can't get into the business of deciding what is and is not a sincere religious belief. They say in the ruling that they must assume that an asserted belief is sincerely held, so long as it's consistent, etc. Ginsberg notes the Court has ruled on claims of discrimination based on religious beliefs, in fact.

    That's the problem with opening this door. Religions can be infinitely crazy, and assert a functionally unlimited number of absurd claims. And now the SC has just set a very high bar for resolving them.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by TobyOne View Post
    Equal protection under the law is guaranteed under the constitution. Such a company would not be able to trump such a right. Birth control is not guaranteed by the constitution.

    Tell all your liberal friends on FB and twitter that this is a stupid argument. FFS.
    Actually Hobby Lobby does cover birth control. It is just the morning after pill they are balking at so 99% of birth control is covered by health insurance after all. The decision won't make any difference since employees will get the extra coverage anyway, Hobby Lobby just won't be paying for it.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by TobyOne View Post
    Equal protection under the law is guaranteed under the constitution. Such a company would not be able to trump such a right. Birth control is not guaranteed by the constitution.

    Tell all your liberal friends on FB and twitter that this is a stupid argument. FFS.
    The Court ruled on religious claims conflicting with a law applied to the general population. It has nothing to do with birth control, except that was the topic of the religious claim. But Muslim owned businesses can certainly assert laws that violate Sharia Law should be invalidated.

    And who are you to say a person can't hold sincerely held religious views that require them to not serve interracial couples because they disapprove of them marrying? It conflicts with the Civil Rights Acts and perhaps other laws, but the Congress and now SC say your religious views trump those laws in some cases.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    I don't know. Maybe many small businesses fall under that heading so it might be higher. Do most of those small businesses provide health care - again, I don't know. I understand that BC pills are provided for free at Planned Parenthood, though, so cost should not be a factor for most.

    Greetings, Montecresto.
    That's what the study seems to support, I suppose it will be apparent in time.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Maenad View Post
    Boo hoo?
    Did I do that?

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Actually Hobby Lobby does cover birth control. It is just the morning after pill they are balking at so 99% of birth control is covered by health insurance after all. The decision won't make any difference since employees will get the extra coverage anyway, Hobby Lobby just won't be paying for it.
    Yes, but other companies have no obligation to cover 16/20 or even 1/20. They could cover zero. And the employees may get the extra coverage but there is nothing in the order requiring it, just that Congress CAN cover those employees if they want.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by DB20 View Post
    The worker?

    I'm a worker and I've done just fine without a union representing me.

    There's a reason that the private workforce s less than 7% unionized.
    It's the same reason wages have gone to pot for the working man.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Because this case wasn't about discrimination. It was about requiring an employer to pay for something that they didn't want to pay for. Birth control isn't a Constitutional right. Freedom from discrimination is a Constitutional right.
    Freedom from the government discriminating against you is a Constitutional right in regard to specific things. There is nothing in the Constitution that prevents an employer from discriminating against you. Anti-Discrimination laws are all legislation- normal statutory law.
    You can never be safe from a government that can keep you completely safe from each other and the world. You must choose.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Their previous plan is irrelevant to the discussion here. SCOTUS doesn't rule on what someone's plan covered in the past.

    If any woman who wants one of those four drugs can't live without their insurance paying, then they should leave Hobby Lobby and work elsewhere. Or decide which birth control method that's covered they DO like.
    Hobby Lobby's plan isn't actually relevant, past or current, it was just interesting they were soooo burdened by covering two of the 4 that they did cover them for years without noticing.

    But the specific plan of HL doesn't matter, because now thousands of businesses can not cover any or some or all, depending, and it's unreasonable to think in this economy those at the bottom can just change jobs till they get perfect coverage. So it will affect access, we just have to decide whether and how much we care, if any.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sadly, this decision will probably result in an increase in abortions. Good job Christian lobby group!
    Given that HL is still and has always provided over a dozen different contraceptives, how does not covering the cost of the specific 4 methods/drugs result in an increase in abortions? At no point are the women denied access to these 4 methods/drugs and they have all the other means available to them. HL saying that they won't cover the cost of these few things only means that the women have to come up with the money for them themselves, sort of like they have to come up with the money for food, and clothes and shelter....

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Not ANY corporation, but certainly religion based ones. This decision by its face = less access to birth control for people who work for these corporations. HL may currently provide it....but this ruling certainly invites religion based companies to refuse to provide ANY....and don't think for a second that they aren't going to leap on this.
    Improper premise. No access has been lessened. There is nothing that stops an individual from seeking the drug/method from another source. Access simply means whether or not a person can legally obtain said item. I have no legal access to heroin, but I do have access to aspirin, assuming that I can pay for it. Also if they can't afford the birth control on their own how are they going to afford the abortion?

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Not at all. A corporation should not be able to make medical decisions for their employees.
    They're not. At no point is any corporation saying that a person can't get this or that. If any corporation is saying that it's the insurances and not HL
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

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