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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

  1. #121
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    He couldn't pass socialized medicine within HIS OWN PARTY, which had a control over the entire congress during much of this debate. The "compromise" you speak of was not a gesture to Republicans, it was due to HIS OWN PARTY not having the votes to pass socialized medicine.
    Obama didn't even try to sell it. That's the problem with centrists. They get burned on both sides.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    This is the day that many of us feared would come. This court has allowed religion to become part of it. I fear Roe V Wade is in serious trouble.
    Funny how you guys fall all over yourselves to defend the religious beliefs of Muslims, Hindus, atheist, etc, but Christians just need to shut the hell up.

  3. #123
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    This is the day that many of us feared would come. This court has allowed religion to become part of it. I fear Roe V Wade is in serious trouble.
    Again, a rogue government was blocked from attempting to suppress the religious beliefs of the citizens.
    Last edited by Ray410; 06-30-14 at 01:28 PM.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    I think Obama thought he'd have at least some conservative support, since he got the idea for the mandate from conservatives. Just saying.
    I guess Obama, like you, failed to research any history other than a cursory reading. The heritage plan that was the backbone for the proposed 1993 plan put forward by Republicans quickly lost Republican support, and by the end of that time period was widely rejected by most republicans as a viable piece of legislation. It was also one of multiple varying plans put forward by Republicans at the time. Additionally, Romney's actions in Massachusetts were oft talked about as a possible mark AGAINST his potential run of the presidency and was a topic of negativity towards him during the 2008 primaries.

    Not to mention your entire argument relies on the notion that if 1% of something is in line with something you wanted over a decade ago then it doesn't matter at all what that other 99% is. The amount of differences between the 1993 bill and the ACA is SUBSTANTIAL, and some of those differences themselves are of a very substantial difference. I love chocolate chip cookies. If you throw chocolate chip cookies on top of a giant turd marinated in bleach then I'm not going to go have a bite no matter how much you got the idea for a "chocolate chip cookie" as part of the dessert from me.


    But why bother with an actual reasoned look at history...it's better to mouth talking points and propaganda and hope that no one is actually knowledgable enough to call people on the bull**** they spew.

  5. #125
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Regardless.....the harder you make it to get contraceptives, the more likely unwanted pregnancies will occur which means increase abortions. This is true whether you like it or not. By making contraceptives harder to get, these Christian lobby groups have insured that more abortions will occur. I wonder how they feel about the blood on their hands.
    You are aware that this case was only about the morning after pill and not regular oral contraception aren't you?

    Oh wait your profile says liberal so it's asking way too much for you to be aware of and understand the facts of this case.

    Nevermind.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Amadeus View Post
    Okay, for anyone interested in looking up the history of the mandate, please follow this link:

    The Tortuous History of Conservatives and the Individual Mandate - Forbes



    Here's a clip of Obama proposing the federal mandate to conservatives in 2008:

    Please provide a link to the Republican Plan that was presented to Congress back then. Also, if you could, provide the record of the votes that were taken.

    Thanks

  7. #127
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Well there is this:

    "The court stressed that its ruling applies only to corporations that are under the control of just a few people in which there is no essential difference between the business and its owners."

    I like it. Kind of like the cities (Seattle) that are trying $15 minimum wage, this is a very manageable portion of businesses...of course most will not enact this anway....and it will display the repercussions *if any* to this decision.

    So no publicly held businesses or corporations.

    But I agree that a strongly held religious belief should be upheld if there is no overall societal harm/harm to the state, just as I supported the pharmacists that refused to carry the morning after drug (personally I find them sanctimoneous, judgemental, unprofessional, and unChristian but I would vote to support their right to refuse).

    If this is a strong religious belief for someone, they should be able to opt out.

    Their employees are not forced to work there.

    It may attract different employees and customers....it may drive away employees and customers. I already boycott them for this reason. (I object personally but would not vote to take away this right)

    So with these sized businesses, it will be an interesting test tube to see if it affects their bottom line and if so, if it changes their decisions. Not all businesses have alot of wiggle room on their bottom line.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  8. #128
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    Funny how you guys fall all over yourselves to defend the religious beliefs of Muslims, Hindus, atheist, etc, but Christians just need to shut the hell up.
    That would be pretty cool. The STFU part. But let's not let the facts get in the way. When you say "You guys", I'll assume you are referring to me as one of those who oppose this move. And yes I do. I loathe organized religion. I loathe the idea that your delusional beliefs in a book of fairy tales is influencing my life or that of my children. And as to the other religions, keep them the **** out of my government.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    You have no empirical evidence backing up your false assertion. You are simply conjecturing based on a whim...
    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye10 View Post
    Or maybe "We now understand why women provoke men into hitting them".
    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    . Losing insurance does not mean losing healthcare. .

  9. #129
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I guess Obama, like you, failed to research any history other than a cursory reading. The heritage plan that was the backbone for the proposed 1993 plan put forward by Republicans quickly lost Republican support, and by the end of that time period was widely rejected by most republicans as a viable piece of legislation. It was also one of multiple varying plans put forward by Republicans at the time. Additionally, Romney's actions in Massachusetts were oft talked about as a possible mark AGAINST his potential run of the presidency and was a topic of negativity towards him during the 2008 primaries.

    But why bother with an actual reasoned look at history...it's better to mouth talking points and propaganda and hope that no one is actually knowledgable enough to call people on the bull**** they spew.
    I posted a direct link detailing the history of the individual mandate for anyone to see. Feel free to point out my inaccuracies, rather than painting me with a broad brush and dismissing me altogether. If I'm wrong I'll accept it, but you're going to have to do better than getting flustered and agitated.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Sadly, this decision will probably result in an increase in abortions.
    So did Roe v. Wade.

    I doubt you'd suggest this argument would be a legitimate one against Roe v. Wade because you feel that Roe v. Wade was protecting ones essential liberty in regards to the right to privacy, and thus even though it would result in "an increase in abortions" that is ENTIRELY okay to you.

    Well...I'm sure to many that even if your assumption is the case (Which is really speculative in nature as it's requiring a lot of assumptive leaps to reach as opposed to Roe v. Wade which was DIRECTLY about abortion), that doesn't preclude that some may feel that ones essentially liberty in regards to the right to religious freedom must not be ignored simply because of the possible poor choices (in those peoples opinions) other people can make.

    You don't support violating the constitution because the side effects of that makes you feel sad. Well, most people don't...perhaps you do.

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