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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    This is what is happening in countries with single payer systems

    The Ugly Realities Of Socialized Medicine Are Not Going Away - Forbes
    I didn't need to read longer than the first couple paragraphs to know she's a hack. She mentions the UK and their severe budget problems with their NHS. First of all, the UK model is socialized, government facilities, government employed doctors, etc. It's like the VA, which nobody is proposing. Furthermore, she fails to mention what the UK spends so we can get some perspective on the issue.

    List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    U.S. : $8,508
    UK: $3,405

    So, they spend 40% what we do. If we spent at their level, we'd have to cut about $1.7 TRILLION in spending per year. So, yes, if we cut 1.7T from spending, likely we'd have severe shortages, quality issues, etc. And this is what passes for a conservative expert, which is why I long ago abandoned the conservative movement.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    LOL....Sally Pipes? Seriously? You try to base your argument on an op-ed piece by a woman who has made a career out of selling books pushing a political agenda. Why am I not surprized. Too funny.
    Doesn't really matter to you how many articles I post or where they come from because your mind is made up in spite of the results around the world. You see results don't matter to a liberal as long as someone else is paying for it

    Like The U.S., Europe Wrestles With Health Care : Shots - Health News : NPR

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I didn't need to read longer than the first couple paragraphs to know she's a hack. She mentions the UK and their severe budget problems with their NHS. First of all, the UK model is socialized, government facilities, government employed doctors, etc. It's like the VA, which nobody is proposing. Furthermore, she fails to mention what the UK spends so we can get some perspective on the issue.

    List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    U.S. : $8,508
    UK: $3,405

    So, they spend 40% what we do. If we spent at their level, we'd have to cut about $1.7 TRILLION in spending per year. So, yes, if we cut 1.7T from spending, likely we'd have severe shortages, quality issues, etc. And this is what passes for a conservative expert, which is why I long ago abandoned the conservative movement.
    Here is another hack for you

    Like The U.S., Europe Wrestles With Health Care : Shots - Health News : NPR

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I didn't need to read longer than the first couple paragraphs to know she's a hack. She mentions the UK and their severe budget problems with their NHS. First of all, the UK model is socialized, government facilities, government employed doctors, etc. It's like the VA, which nobody is proposing. Furthermore, she fails to mention what the UK spends so we can get some perspective on the issue.

    List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    U.S. : $8,508
    UK: $3,405

    So, they spend 40% what we do. If we spent at their level, we'd have to cut about $1.7 TRILLION in spending per year. So, yes, if we cut 1.7T from spending, likely we'd have severe shortages, quality issues, etc. And this is what passes for a conservative expert, which is why I long ago abandoned the conservative movement.
    By the way who is "we" since we live in a private sector economy. Guess you don't understand that costs have to be paid by someone and that someone is you if you pay taxes. You think a single payer system is going to cut costs? you are very naive, gullible and poorly informed but the rhetoric and promises sure sound good, don't they? What happens when you are proven wrong? Then it will be too late but what good is saying "I am sorry" then?

    Put a voucher system in place and let people purchase their own insurance.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    That was kinda the whole point of the case and the dissent. The point of the dissent being, knowing how our insurance industry operates, why should a religion owned company be allowed to opt out based on their religious views.
    Because...the Constitution. and the RFRA.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Doesn't really matter to you how many articles I post or where they come from because your mind is made up in spite of the results around the world. You see results don't matter to a liberal as long as someone else is paying for it

    Like The U.S., Europe Wrestles With Health Care : Shots - Health News : NPR
    Actually....a much better article linked on your second try. No one is claiming that any system would be perfect, nor that it wouldn't involve growing pains and would need to adapt and make changes along the way. As the article you linked indicates, France has one of the best systems in the world, but it took a while and some flexibility for them to get there. Maybe with a little flexibility and being open to make some changes, the US system can get there as well.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I'll address that one, but interesting you had no comment about the problem with the Forbes article. It's obvious hackery.

    The second article points out that costs are a problem everywhere. OK, modern medicine is expensive, France delivers care to every citizen at 2/3s our cost, gets excellent results, and doesn't have a perfect system. Well, what system IS perfect, for anything? I'm not trying to avoid any point in that article, but I'm not sure what part of it defends our status quo or some system that you haven't specified that you'd like better. And several people quoted think out system is nuts - crazy expensive, 16% uninsured.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    By the way who is "we" since we live in a private sector economy. Guess you don't understand that costs have to be paid by someone and that someone is you if you pay taxes. You think a single payer system is going to cut costs? you are very naive, gullible and poorly informed but the rhetoric and promises sure sound good, don't they? What happens when you are proven wrong? Then it will be too late but what good is saying "I am sorry" then?
    That's just not what the DATA and EVIDENCE show. Maybe you can inform me with different data? Here's that list of spending per capita. See where we rank:

    List of countries by total health expenditure (PPP) per capita - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    What am I missing?

    Put a voucher system in place and let people purchase their own insurance.
    OK, sounds great. Now deal with paying for it, setting the voucher amount, tell me how you'll deal with cancer survivors for whom no amount of voucher will get them insurance, etc. I'll wait till I see an actual proposal to spend a lot of time examining. And if I'm waiting on GOPers for that, probably be dead before I see it (I'm 51).

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Actually....a much better article linked on your second try. No one is claiming that any system would be perfect, nor that it wouldn't involve growing pains and would need to adapt and make changes along the way. As the article you linked indicates, France has one of the best systems in the world, but it took a while and some flexibility for them to get there. Maybe with a little flexibility and being open to make some changes, the US system can get there as well.
    Much better? LOL, you like the author but ignore that the information is the same. You see apparently the facts change depending on who the author is regardless if the information is the same.

    Those growing pains in Europe are after years of universal healthcare and they don't have 312 million people.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'll address that one, but interesting you had no comment about the problem with the Forbes article. It's obvious hackery.

    The second article points out that costs are a problem everywhere. OK, modern medicine is expensive, France delivers care to every citizen at 2/3s our cost, gets excellent results, and doesn't have a perfect system. Well, what system IS perfect, for anything? I'm not trying to avoid any point in that article, but I'm not sure what part of it defends our status quo or some system that you haven't specified that you'd like better. And several people quoted think out system is nuts - crazy expensive, 16% uninsured.
    Europe doesn't have 312 million people living in 50 sovereign states. You want a govt run program controlled by a govt that has generated a 17.5 trillion dollar debt which means about 250 BILLION dollars a year in debt service. Wonder what that 250 billion would cover were it not going to service a debt? Guess out of sight out of mind with you but that 250 billion is in the budget and that is going to skyrocket when the interest rates rise. Now you want a program that will add trillions to that debt. That is lunacy.

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