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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Personally, yes. But I am pro-choice. I would like to see no abortions take place, however, I don't believe that the government should be the one making that decision.
    But the govt should be able to make you pay for someone else's?
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    But the govt should be able to make you pay for someone else's?
    Thats what the entire insurance system is based on. Doh!
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    Thats what the entire insurance system is based on. Doh!
    Way to dodge the question.
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

    Quote Originally Posted by The German View Post
    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    Way to dodge the question.

    How is that "dodging the question"? I hear similar complaints all the time. My next door neighbor cries to me all the time about "Why am I paying to have my insurance cover pediatric dental? I don't even have any kids". My response to her is "Why does my insurance cover gynacological exams?" The point being....the insurance industry is set up to cover things that we may not necessarily want or care about....thats just the way the system operates and what it is based on.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Again, you are wrong, you make a general statement judging others by your own standards. The liberal solution is a single payer system and incrementally that is exactly what is happening. Obamacare is failing and the next solution is a single payer system which most liberals want and what is being promoted

    Liberals Should Fight Like Hell for Single Payer Health Care | Brent Budowsky
    The columnist in that link proposes a single payer system like Medicare, which is nothing at all in practice similar to the VA system. The VA system is government owned facilities, government employed workers, delivering care to a very small slice of the population totally outside the extensive private delivery system we have in place. Single payer, as the columnist used it and I use that term, would replace some or all of the private insurers with ONE payer - e.g. Medicare - but retain the private delivery system.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    The columnist in that link proposes a single payer system like Medicare, which is nothing at all in practice similar to the VA system. The VA system is government owned facilities, government employed workers, delivering care to a very small slice of the population totally outside the extensive private delivery system we have in place. Single payer, as the columnist used it and I use that term, would replace some or all of the private insurers with ONE payer - e.g. Medicare - but retain the private delivery system.
    Obviously you don't understand what a single payer system is. It is all about where the money comes from and in both the VA and Medicare it comes from the Federal Govt. after taking it from people who pay taxes. The govt. then sets the rates and that destroys incentive as well as drives doctors out of the business meaning there will be less choices. Medicare has driven doctors out of the system and will do the same thing with a single payer system for healthcare. Liberals always believe the opposite and when their beliefs are proven wrong they are already on to something else never admitting they were wrong.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have over 46,000 posts in this forum, presenting data to back up everything I post including BLS, BEA, Treasury data. I even posted data showing TX information and what I have found out is that liberals don't take anything they don't actually research as accurate so the best thing to do is tell people like you to do your own research and find out the information. When you do you won't be heard from again because I know that if I post inaccurate data that everyone here on the opposite side are going to jump all over it and take great pride in proving me wrong. That has yet to happen here and won't because I am careful about the data I post.
    I guess I'm not sure what data I'm going to uncover that will debunk the data I presented. I also try to be careful with what data I present, and so far in this thread at least no one has bothered to contradict me with other data, just asserted they don't like what I presented, backed by nothing. Not sure what I'm supposed to do.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Obviously you don't understand what a single payer system is. It is all about where the money comes from and in both the VA and Medicare it comes from the Federal Govt. after taking it from people who pay taxes. The govt. then sets the rates and that destroys incentive as well as drives doctors out of the business meaning there will be less choices. Medicare has driven doctors out of the system and will do the same thing with a single payer system for healthcare. Liberals always believe the opposite and when their beliefs are proven wrong they are already on to something else never admitting they were wrong.
    Sure I understand what single payer is. Two words 'single' and 'payer' - like Medicare. But there is a world of difference between the VA system and Medicare.

    And you say that single payer destroys incentives and drives doctors out of business, but somehow single payer systems in Europe manage to have far more physicians per capita in many cases than we do. Physicians (Per 10,000 Population) | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

    Per 10,000:

    France: 34
    UK: 28
    Germany: 37
    Sweden: 39
    U.S.: 24

    Canada only has about 20, so 20% less than the U.S., which probably explains some of their long wait times. But that's not an inherent problem with single payer, as you can see from the data from Europe.

    Our supply here has been artificially kept low for decades through the AMA and limiting resident slots subsidized by Medicare. If we expanded slots, we'd fill them tomorrow with lots and lots of students not able to get a residency slot right now. We could allow more foreign born and/or educated physicians into this country.

    You say I "believe the opposite," but I'm just asking for data to disprove what I have seen in the data.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I guess I'm not sure what data I'm going to uncover that will debunk the data I presented. I also try to be careful with what data I present, and so far in this thread at least no one has bothered to contradict me with other data, just asserted they don't like what I presented, backed by nothing. Not sure what I'm supposed to do.
    You posted a wikipedia article that talked about Medical tourism that didn't present any information that would lead you to believe that Americans are going to other countries for the sole purpose of getting better care, only cheaper care and probably for care not authorized in this country such as alternative cancer treatments. You seem to believe other countries have a better system based upon the information you posted that actually doesn't give the details as to where these people went, what treatments they got, what were the costs, what was the wait time, and why did they go there?

    There are articles after articles of people actually coming to this country for specific treatments such as heart surgery and the question is why? If their country's healthcare is so much better why do they come here? The wait times in countries with national healthcare are causing people to leave to get better and quicker treatment

    U.S. Hospitals Worth The Trip - Forbes

    Grass being greener on the other side of the fence?

    The Ugly Realities Of Socialized Medicine Are Not Going Away - Forbes

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Sure I understand what single payer is. Two words 'single' and 'payer' - like Medicare. But there is a world of difference between the VA system and Medicare.

    And you say that single payer destroys incentives and drives doctors out of business, but somehow single payer systems in Europe manage to have far more physicians per capita in many cases than we do. Physicians (Per 10,000 Population) | The Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation

    Per 10,000:

    France: 34
    UK: 28
    Germany: 37
    Sweden: 39
    U.S.: 24

    Canada only has about 20, so 20% less than the U.S., which probably explains some of their long wait times. But that's not an inherent problem with single payer, as you can see from the data from Europe.

    Our supply here has been artificially kept low for decades through the AMA and limiting resident slots subsidized by Medicare. If we expanded slots, we'd fill them tomorrow with lots and lots of students not able to get a residency slot right now. We could allow more foreign born and/or educated physicians into this country.

    You say I "believe the opposite," but I'm just asking for data to disprove what I have seen in the data.
    Single payer systems are going broke and having to really tighten their belts as well as lengthen wait times. Why do you think that the Federal Govt. can cover more people at a lower cost? There is no logic in that argument at all since costs vary by state.


    The Ugly Realities Of Socialized Medicine Are Not Going Away - Forbes

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