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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

  1. #1211
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But you've dismissed them with no investigation at all, then repeatedly made assertions that contradict all the available data with NOTHING - NOT ONE LINK OR CITE TO ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL - to back those assertions up. Whose credibility is greater here?



    I'm not confused by your statement. You said "We have the best healthcare system in the world." That's a totally subjective statement with no real basis in the evidence. How do you determine 'best' or 'worst?' If you want to prove your claim, it's simple enough to cherry pick some stats that do so and present those and ignore others. Say survival rates of prostate cancer. We do REALLY well with that. OK. How about affordability? If you ignore that it won't affect the ranking. If that's important, that we have 40 million uninsured and still pay double, that will probably take us off the top perch, etc. We have far FEWER doctors per capita. Important or not? Who knows. How about treatment for chronic illness. We're not good at that. So how do you put all that together to determine BEST!! or not? Who knows. I had NO interest getting into that argument.

    Then you said, "whose costs are increased by frivolous lawsuits, excessive testing and approval process for drugs, federal regulations and interstate commerce issues." I've looked into the frivolous lawsuits stuff and the total spent on 'defensive' medicine and lawsuits is perhaps 3-4% of total spending. Well, some of that is inevitable, so let's call it half can be avoided. That might bring down costs by 2% at most, which is nice, but obviously not the core issue. the rest - excessive testing etc. for drugs - I know you have no data on that, so why would I bother spending time looking it up, etc. to respond to obvious baseless talking points.

    Instead of doing that and more I said, "OK." But not because I'm confused or can't respond.
    This is a waste of time and again off track of the thread topic. A little research will verify the information I have provided you and as you stated I have no interest in further educating you for as I have stated before if a political foe is committing suicide stand aside and let them. You are doing just that with a lot of opinions and misinformation. I have posted hundreds of charts in DP only to be ignored. It is a waste of time dealing with ideologues who just ignore the information believing instead whatever they want. You are going to do that and for some reason believe that contraception should be paid for by someone else. I disagree and also disagree that you have a right to get anything from your employer other than an equal opportunity to make as much as you can.

  2. #1212
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The point continues to be the uninsured is a state issue not a Federal issue and people like you are still looking to the Federal Govt. to implement social programs that you want. It is up to the people of TX to decide what they want and right now the people of TX aren't for a state run program. Who are you to tell the people of TX what they want or need?
    I guess we can agree to disagree on that.

    You said VA wasn't a single payer system, you are wrong, but cannot admit it. Guess someone hijacked your posts as didn't you post in 1201 the following?
    I'll admit it. You win, the VA is a type of single payer system that NO ONE proposes be expanded to cover the general population. Feel better?

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    This is a waste of time and again off track of the thread topic. A little research will verify the information I have provided you and as you stated I have no interest in further educating you for as I have stated before if a political foe is committing suicide stand aside and let them. You are doing just that with a lot of opinions and misinformation. I have posted hundreds of charts in DP only to be ignored. It is a waste of time dealing with ideologues who just ignore the information believing instead whatever they want. You are going to do that and for some reason believe that contraception should be paid for by someone else. I disagree and also disagree that you have a right to get anything from your employer other than an equal opportunity to make as much as you can.
    We agree on that!

    But I'll just note that I do try to present data to back up my opinions, and did so in this discussion. I'm sorry you don't want to recognize that or debate based on the evidence.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    A Supreme Court opinion is ALWAYS specific to the case it is addressing. You have to understand how to read the "holding" of the case and understand the ramifications of the decision. This is what jurisprudence is all about and how our court system operates. It would be incredibly naive to believe that this ruling is limited to Hobby Lobby. That isn't the way the Supreme Court operates.
    I understand full well about jurisprudence and how holdings have to be read; indeed it was a core part of my education. My statement was not suggesting that this case was unable to be used as precedence in the future or that it would be unable to apply to things outside the scope of what it touched specifically on as it related to Hobby Lobby. What I suggested was that you are WRONG to suggest that it allows companies to deny coverage on anything which they deem offensive to their beliefs. This decision in no way definitively allows for that. It POTENTIALLY does, depending entirely on how the court views future cases as it relates to this one, but it potentially does not as well. While it can be argued that this decision provides the potential for that to happen, the decision does not specifically lay out that such is possible. As such, attempting to portray it as an absolute fact of what will come is just abjectly wrong. Now do you care to respond to my argument rather than responding largely based on an assumption that I don't know basics regarding constitutional law?

  5. #1215
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I guess we can agree to disagree on that.



    I'll admit it. You win, the VA is a type of single payer system that NO ONE proposes be expanded to cover the general population. Feel better?

    Again, you are wrong, you make a general statement judging others by your own standards. The liberal solution is a single payer system and incrementally that is exactly what is happening. Obamacare is failing and the next solution is a single payer system which most liberals want and what is being promoted


    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brent-...b_4235682.html

  6. #1216
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    We agree on that!

    But I'll just note that I do try to present data to back up my opinions, and did so in this discussion. I'm sorry you don't want to recognize that or debate based on the evidence.
    I have over 46,000 posts in this forum, presenting data to back up everything I post including BLS, BEA, Treasury data. I even posted data showing TX information and what I have found out is that liberals don't take anything they don't actually research as accurate so the best thing to do is tell people like you to do your own research and find out the information. When you do you won't be heard from again because I know that if I post inaccurate data that everyone here on the opposite side are going to jump all over it and take great pride in proving me wrong. That has yet to happen here and won't because I am careful about the data I post.

  7. #1217
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    I understand full well about jurisprudence and how holdings have to be read; indeed it was a core part of my education. My statement was not suggesting that this case was unable to be used as precedence in the future or that it would be unable to apply to things outside the scope of what it touched specifically on as it related to Hobby Lobby. What I suggested was that you are WRONG to suggest that it allows companies to deny coverage on anything which they deem offensive to their beliefs. This decision in no way definitively allows for that. It POTENTIALLY does, depending entirely on how the court views future cases as it relates to this one, but it potentially does not as well. While it can be argued that this decision provides the potential for that to happen, the decision does not specifically lay out that such is possible. As such, attempting to portray it as an absolute fact of what will come is just abjectly wrong. Now do you care to respond to my argument rather than responding largely based on an assumption that I don't know basics regarding constitutional law?
    You are correct. I looked back at my post #1041 and can see that I mis-spoke. I didn't mean to be arguing that the decision allows a company to exclude from coverage anything that they deem morally offensive (although I agree with you that it is a possible extension of this). What I meant to be arguing in the context of the discussion was that it doesn't return Hobby Lobby's policy solely back to what it was, it allows for them to exlcude from coverage ANY contraceptive coverage which they deem morally offensive. I could have phrased it better and was not entirely clear.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I have over 46,000 posts in this forum, presenting data to back up everything I post including BLS, BEA, Treasury data. I even posted data showing TX information and what I have found out is that liberals don't take anything they don't actually research as accurate so the best thing to do is tell people like you to do your own research and find out the information. When you do you won't be heard from again because I know that if I post inaccurate data that everyone here on the opposite side are going to jump all over it and take great pride in proving me wrong. That has yet to happen here and won't because I am careful about the data I post.

    Oh...now THIS is funny.....
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The liberal solution is a single payer system and incrementally that is exactly what is happening.
    That is exactly what we need. Get rid of the stupid Heritage Foundation/Republican idea of the insurance mandate and replace it with a single payer system. At the very least, repleace it with a public option which is what we should have gotten in the first place.
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

  10. #1220
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    That is exactly what we need. Get rid of the stupid Heritage Foundation/Republican idea of the insurance mandate and replace it with a single payer system. At the very least, repleace it with a public option which is what we should have gotten in the first place.
    Turned 65 yet? Cannot wait for that to happen and you get forced onto Medicare. Great program, you are going to love it, LOL.

    VA system is a single payer system and we all can see how well the Federal Govt. does in administering anything. Give the Vets a Voucher and let them go wherever they want. What is it about liberalism that believes a Federal Govt. that has created a 17.5 trillion dollar debt, created a 3.9 trillion dollar Federal Govt. and has over 100 million Americans dependent on that govt. could administer a single payer system any better than the private sector can by giving people tax credits to buy their own insurance?

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