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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Really no sense in carrying this discussion further, you seem to believe that the bureaucrats in D.C. have the answers and look for a one size fits all solution to your local problems. That is never going to happen. Either get involved in local politics, attract new businesses to your area, or simply do what you are doing being part of the victim mentality. Wonder which one will lead to success?
    Not everyone who disagrees with right wingers is a victim. I'm sure no "victim" of anything. We just don't agree. But we're not going to have a productive conversation on this.... Oh well.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    Yeah we have that now, it's called the VA.... oops.
    Typical response. If you look at the best healthcare systems in the world, none of them are structured anything LIKE the VA, which is socialized medicine on the UK model. Most of them have a lot more in common with the ACA than Medicare in fact - with large roles for private insurance companies. The key distinction is we're the only one (afaik) that allows for profit insurers into the middle of the provider=>patient relationship incentivized to skim as much as possible off the top to divert to shareholders.

    And all the best ones have most, sometimes nearly all, services provided by private, as opposed to government owned, entities. So bringing up the VA is just a strawman.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Not everyone who disagrees with right wingers is a victim. I'm sure no "victim" of anything. We just don't agree. But we're not going to have a productive conversation on this.... Oh well.
    Yes, and not everyone that gets help from that 3.8 trillion dollar federal govt. actually needs that help as there is significant waste, fraud, and abuse. Until that is solved why would you support sending more money to the Federal Govt?

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Typical response. If you look at the best healthcare systems in the world, none of them are structured anything LIKE the VA, which is socialized medicine on the UK model. Most of them have a lot more in common with the ACA than Medicare in fact - with large roles for private insurance companies. The key distinction is we're the only one (afaik) that allows for profit insurers into the middle of the provider=>patient relationship incentivized to skim as much as possible off the top to divert to shareholders.

    And all the best ones have most, sometimes nearly all, services provided by private, as opposed to government owned, entities. So bringing up the VA is just a strawman.
    I keep hearing how good healthcare is in other countries and yet still see leaders of those countries as well as citizens coming to this country for procedures. Wonder whY? how many here actually have received other country healthcare?

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    What is your expertise to make that statement? How often have you used foreign healthcare? Ever hear the saying that the grass is greener on the other side until you get there? Love liberal experts like you who ignore how many foreigners are coming to this country for treatment abandoning their own health care system. Wonder why?
    You don't have evidence on your side in that argument. How many ARE coming here? In 2008, McKenzie estimated 80,000 per year (pop Europe, about 800 million. Pop Canada, about 35 million, etc.). At least 10 times more Americans travel abroad for care. Somewhat less than 0.5% of Canadians get care in the U.S., and many of those who do were here and received medical care for illnesses that had nothing to do with medical tourism. They got care where they got sick or injured.

    Etc.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Has longer waits and they still come to the US to get many procedures done.
    Can you cite some data on that?

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by avery45 View Post
    HAve we become an nation of the spoiled? We should be thankful a third party is willing to pay for anything (healthcare, 401K, and many other benefits)
    That's like saying we should be "thankful" to get a paycheck. Sheesh, employers should be "thankful" for workers who do their job for less pay than the value they create, enabling employers to make far more in profits than they could on their own labor alone. It IS a two way street.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Typical response. If you look at the best healthcare systems in the world, none of them are structured anything LIKE the VA, which is socialized medicine on the UK model. Most of them have a lot more in common with the ACA than Medicare in fact - with large roles for private insurance companies. The key distinction is we're the only one (afaik) that allows for profit insurers into the middle of the provider=>patient relationship incentivized to skim as much as possible off the top to divert to shareholders.
    So you're doubling down on the ACA. Sweet! No single payer.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    And all the best ones have most, sometimes nearly all, services provided by private, as opposed to government owned, entities. So bringing up the VA is just a strawman.
    Name the "best one's" which cover 320 million people. I'll wait....
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I keep hearing how good healthcare is in other countries and yet still see leaders of those countries as well as citizens coming to this country for procedures. Wonder whY? how many here actually have received other country healthcare?
    I have, in three countries (Germany, Aruba, Hong Kong), and it was quite good in all three cases. The GP actually came to my hotel room in HK, which was nice. That 20 minute visit plus drugs was $70.

    But anecdotes =/= evidence, good or bad. Same reason that SOME leaders of SOME countries have traveled here for SOME medical procedures isn't actually much of an argument for any particular arrangement of a healthcare system that serves 350 million individuals. Do SOME leaders of SOME countries travel to countries other than the U.S.? How many compared to those who travel to the U.S.? Etc.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    So you're doubling down on the ACA. Sweet! No single payer.

    Name the "best one's" which cover 320 million people. I'll wait....
    So, we have to find countries with at least our population and then limit our analysis to only those few countries? That's really mindbogglingly irrational.

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