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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

  1. #1101
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    JasperL;1063479858]You give yourself away a bit when you refer to a broad class of people as the "so called" poor. Are they not 'really' poor unless they're living in a cardboard house, bathing in the river, and have kids with swollen bellies from starvation and malnutrition like you see in the REALLY poor countries? Give me a break.
    I asked you to define those making minimum wage and who is poor. You have no idea who I am or where i lived but the coal country of Eastern Ky certainly would qualify as poor. No one forces those people to live under those conditions and I chose not to either. You see, choice certainly applies here as well

    And I don't know what you expect from the so-called poor. It's not like we have an economy with lots of good paying jobs that no one will fill. These people you're all but spitting on will line up by the thousands for every decent job that opens up. Read the news about a plant opening - is there a shortage of people willing to work for a decent wage? Here's the first story where I could get numbers - 30,000 apply for 2,000 jobs. Those jobs just don't exist, we lost about 5 million of them last decades, and replaced them with crap service jobs with low pay.
    Guess it is too much to expect honesty. You buy what you are told and do no independent research. I moved six times in my career all to better myself and my family. I didn't wait for the job or the money to come to me. Why should anyone else. if the opportunity isn't in your community, move to where the opportunities lie. That is why TX is growing so rapidly, great economy, low cost of living, and the number one state in the union in population growth? Why? Low wages, no health insurance? That is what liberals want you to believe but I hope you think rather than feel. People don't move to TX to live in poverty or to have no insurance, they move here because of the opportunities. I wish some of those from California would move back because they are trying to turn this state into the one they left

    So I'm just not sure what you expect. That we adopt the expectations of the third world for the ACTUAL poor and anyone who isn't living at the brink of subsistence has it lucky?
    What do I expect? Equal OPPORTUNITY, NOT equal outcome. Give me the opportunity and I will do the rest. that is what happened when I got my first job, 35 years later I retired from that job and operated everyone of those years like I was on a one year contract. Interesting how performance generates job security

    B
    TW, as to the consequences, we ALL live with the consequences. 1.2 million abortions, lots of dysfunctional parents raising troubled kids that are multiples more likely to get into trouble, etc. But, keep scolding people, I'm sure that will work out eventually.
    Yes, and why do you think that is the case? Couldn't be because their aren't any negative consequences for bad behavior? The liberal entitlement mentality is alive and well taking over this country and you continue to spout the liberal line that it is always someone else's fault for poor personal choices.

    And if you want to make a point about minimum wage, I'll listen, but I hope you're not going to just quote those at the very bottom because that's a pretty incomplete picture of the labor situation. I know we've got approaching 50 million poor enough to qualify for food stamps, so that's a fairly good indication of the number of Americans barely getting by, and with real unemployment topping out over 10%, it's not like you can tell them all to just GET A JOB! and that would work because the jobs do not exist.
    My point has always been it isn't any of the government's business what someone who has their own money invested in a business pays their employees. The market will take care of those businesses if we ever had a pro growth, pro business govt. Minimum wage should always be an individual issue and if it is a government issue it belongs at the state and local levels. States can set their own minimum wage with taxpayer support and many do so why is this even a federal issue? want to know why? Because it gives govt. more power and most union contracts are tied to the minimum wage increases. Give a 20% raise in the minimum wage and see what happens to union contracts?

    I can tell people to get a job. The Houston Chronicle has pages of job opportunities available to people every day and some people simply refuse to work any job they don't deem worthy of their skills set when the reality is their skill set doesn't qualify them for many jobs. Start with a minimum wage job and if you are worth your salt you will get a raise in 90 days and most companies still promote from within, mine sure did and I took people making low wages and promoted them to management positions. some ended up earning 6 digit incomes, not bad for some high school drop out with drive and initiative.

    You tell me why minimum wage is a federal issue?

  2. #1102
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    If I pay my insurance premiums each month, shouldn't I be able to have the available prescriptions or contraceptives I want that are provided from the insurance company not what my employer thinks or believes is best for me due to personal religious beliefs?
    Do you hold this view also for the overall drug list that the insurance company or the workplace chooses? I hear a lot about how ALL the contraceptive choices should be included, but never have I heard that ALL the drug choices for other conditions should be included in plans, either by the insurance company or by the employer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Well, yeah, it is different, because if your car dies, you can get another car.
    If your car dies outside of a catastrophic incident then it's because you didn't take care of it. Should anyone else be responsible for your negligence? Likewise if your body fails outside of a catastrophic incident (to include major conditions such as cancer and the like), then it's because you didn't take care of it. Should anyone else be responsible for your negligence?

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    One month supply of pills $15.00 x 60 mnths ( 5 yrs) = $900.00.
    But what was the difference in the premium? That is the key. Plus that supply of pills, is that your co-pay or the overall cost to the company? There are details that lots of us don't think about. Such as the $1000 cost you were quoted might have been that low (relatively speaking) since the office wouldn't have had to deal with the insurance processing red tape. The overall cost to the office and thus passed onto the insurance company includes the cost of processing the procedure as well as padding for those things that the company turns around and denies. So through the insurance the IUD might actually cost $2000 or more, even though you never see all of that. If you get an Explanation of Benefits statement, look at the total cost of a procedure and then shop around and see what you get quoted for the same procedure sans insurance.
    Bi, Poly, Switch. I'm not indecisive, I'm greedy!

  3. #1103
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well that is certainly one way to deflect from an issue important to a lot of us and Obamacare is definitely seen as a serious issue important to a lot of us. Just say that we do that about everything or go to extreme hyperbole that was never expressed. And you know what? The USA was once the nation other nations envied and hoped to emulate. We had the finest schools, the finest healthcare system, the most free, the most innovative, most productive, and most prosperous people in the world when we did things the way we thought they should be. So why in the world do some think we should look to others and do it their way and become like them instead of being the trend setter that we once were?
    I'll keep this brief. Why emulate the best run healthcare systems in the rest of the world?

    1) Universal coverage
    2) About half to 2/3 the cost.
    3) Excellent results.
    4) Can be well integrated within economically free economies, the most free on the planet per Heritage.

    Pretty simple. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here - we have an entire world of dozens of kinds of universal care to learn from. Why not learn from them? Our trend setting has us paying twice the world average, with 40 million uninsured, 10s of millions more hopelessly underinsured, and bankrupting everything from companies to governments from local to national.

  4. #1104
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'll keep this brief. Why emulate the best run healthcare systems in the rest of the world?

    1) Universal coverage
    2) About half to 2/3 the cost.
    3) Excellent results.
    4) Can be well integrated within economically free economies, the most free on the planet per Heritage.

    Pretty simple. We don't need to reinvent the wheel here - we have an entire world of dozens of kinds of universal care to learn from. Why not learn from them? Our trend setting has us paying twice the world average, with 40 million uninsured, 10s of millions more hopelessly underinsured, and bankrupting everything from companies to governments from local to national.
    Yeah we have that now, it's called the VA.... oops.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


  5. #1105
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    If your car dies outside of a catastrophic incident then it's because you didn't take care of it. Should anyone else be responsible for your negligence? Likewise if your body fails outside of a catastrophic incident (to include major conditions such as cancer and the like), then it's because you didn't take care of it. Should anyone else be responsible for your negligence?
    Um, wrong again. People get sick. It happens.

    Human life and cars are two completely different things.
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  6. #1106
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    Well that is certainly one way to deflect from an issue important to a lot of us and Obamacare is definitely seen as a serious issue important to a lot of us. Just say that we do that about everything or go to extreme hyperbole that was never expressed. And you know what? The USA was once the nation other nations envied and hoped to emulate. We had the finest schools, the finest healthcare system, the most free, the most innovative, most productive, and most prosperous people in the world when we did things the way we thought they should be. So why in the world do some think we should look to others and do it their way and become like them instead of being the trend setter that we once were?
    Oh christ, are we really using American exceptionalism as some bull**** rationale as to why we shouldn't do what the rest of the civilized world does?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

  7. #1107
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    JasperL;1063479905]Fact is if right wingers in red states would get off their lazy rear ends, they could design a program that isn't the ACA because the ACA allows them to experiment, but they'd rather whine and moan about what someone else came up with than do the hard work of actually solving a problem like healthcare. Same thing on the national level. GOPers have sat around forever and done nothing but first kill HillaryCare then whined and obstructed Obamacare.
    I am damn proud to be a right winger who believes in the Constitution and the intent of our Founders to have a limited central govt. with power resting in the states. Seems to me it is the liberals on their lazy asses who refuse to work hard to elect people in their states thus pawn their responsibility off to a federal bureaucrat in D.C. Healthcare is like minimum wage, a state issue. Some states enacted their own healthcare program, MA for example. If my state put it on the ballot and it passed I would be forced to support it or move. I don't think healthcare is a federal issue because costs are carried by the state taxpayers not the federal one prior to Obamacare. You seem to want to give more power to a govt that is now 3.8 TRILLION dollars and 17.5 trillion in debt. Is that liberal logic?

    And the ACA reflects a lot of those differences. Rates where i live are fairly cheap because I'm in the healthcare center for the region, and the cost of living is low, so California or NYC is much higher. It's got private insurers and while they do have to offer a fairly big basket of 'essentials' they can and do vary quite a bit with regard to everything else. Rates have a huge range in my area from Copper to Platinum and even within those bands. You're claiming a system exists that really doesn't - it's just not the end of the world. KY is a red state and they really like Obamacare so long as it's called Kynect!
    Rates always vary by state and local communities thus why is this a federal issue? You are going to find out just how much people like Obamacare or Kynect this fall. You again buy what you are told and fail to do any research. Healthcare is a personal responsibility and yet liberals want to make it a taxpayer responsibility. Find out who pays for the uninsured in Tenn? Think it is the people of TX?

    The bottom line I always tell my right wing friends is talk is dang cheap. You all don't like obamacare, great, I don't either. So why does an entire movement seem incapable of getting off their dang lazy butts and actually do some work and propose something better, put it in a bill with details, get it passed and paid for with taxes or spending cuts, and we'll see the wonderful, glorious, right wing solution? How long do we need to wait? Another 50 years?
    Talk is a lot cheaper than liberal social programs which make up most of the 17.4 trillion dollar debt. There have been a number of GOP plans floated including a program of providing tax credits to buy local insurance. that makes the most sense to me, let the people decide on what is best for them

    You're in the small minority, then, because Medicare is still a third rail of politics with very high approval ratings. My mom and mother in law have it, and I'm quite involved in their healthcare and I haven't run into any issues. They get good doctors, have access to any hospital they want, etc. If you want to be specific, then you can do that. We need to cut costs, but anymore whenever someone mentions cost cutting the right wing screams DEATH PANELS!!
    Maybe I am in the minority, when you turn 65 I anxiously await your opinion then. It is very high until you need it and then what happens? My doctor of 22 years does not accept Medicare. Doctors all over the nation are dropping Medicare. Hospitals are advertising that they don't take Medicare? Why? because rather than doctors and healthcare running the healthcare business it is left to bureaucrats. I realize this is nothing more than a small example but I have a friend who is on Medicare who is having intestinal problems, Medicare paid for the first colonoscopy but when the problem continued the doctor wanted to do another one but Medicare said no, that the person would have to check into the hospital, stay three days, have a number of tests run before they would pay. Does that make sense to you? That is what bureaucrats do. As for Death panels, who makes the decision on what treatment this person should receive, not her private doctor?

  8. #1108
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

    Scratch a liberal, reveal a fascist. I don't know who said it but it pretty much sums them up. If they had sincere beliefs about the role of government in society they would at least be palatable. They don't give a rat's ass about anyone except for their need to decide what is best for other people. For their ideology to be true, and their policies justified everyone but them must be greedy, racist, homophobe, sexist, science denying or whatever is the new theme of the week. A putrid ideology to its core.


    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Don't you know that liberals are all God like, knowing what is right or wrong, knowing what is best for everyone else, and have no problem spending someone else's money? A living fetus isn't a baby in the liberal world thus there isn't anything to save. That sonogram really is nothing more than a trumped up conservative machine projecting a false image therefore when a woman kills that fetus it really isn't murder, just selfishness run amuk.

  9. #1109
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

    Quote Originally Posted by TobyOne View Post
    Scratch a liberal, reveal a fascist. I don't know who said it but it pretty much sums them up. If they had sincere beliefs about the role of government in society they would at least be palatable. They don't give a rat's ass about anyone except for their need to decide what is best for other people. For their ideology to be true, and their policies justified everyone but them must be greedy, racist, homophobe, sexist, science denying or whatever is the new theme of the week. A putrid ideology to its core.
    Meh, more boilerplate hackish right-wing garbage. "LIBERAL FASCISM DURRRR." You'll fit right in.
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Explain why we *should* do what the rest of the world does. Be detailed and non-weaselly.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Oh christ, are we really using American exceptionalism as some bull**** rationale as to why we shouldn't do what the rest of the civilized world does?

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