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Thread: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge[W:513,870]

  1. #1001
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    It is difficult to believe that HL didn't know considering they had a "self insured group health plan".
    That's what they said.
    It's not like they've been caught lying about healthcare promises.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Seems you have a record in this thread of basically insinuating that people who disagree with you are naive, don't get the big picture or the like. I guess we'll see what the outcome really is, and I doubt you own a crystal ball.
    It has nothing to do with agreeing or disagreeing, it has everything to do with understanding jurisprudence and how the Supreme Court operates. Why would you think this ruling is limited to Hobby Lobby?
    <font size=5><b>Its been several weeks since the Vegas shooting.  Its it still "Too Early" or can we start having the conversation about finally doing something about these mass shootings???​</b></font>

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by disneydude View Post
    You are missing the big picture. It probably helps if you have read the decision. Essentially, the Supreme Court said that a company, if owned substantially by a religious organization, can refuse to cover medical procedures that conflict with their religious beliefs, even if the company itself is not a "religious business".e.g., "Hobby Lobby". The NYT is not a religious organization so hence....no "invitiation" was "sent" to the NYT. What you will see as a result of this ruling is more and more religion owned businesses opting out of birth control coverage. That is quaranteed by this decision...unless you are of the naive belief that it only applies to "Hobby Lobby" and the four types of BC they objected to.
    You're the one who said the invitation went out to companies.
    Very unspecific.
    More of that intentionally sloppy language.

    But cutting through the crap, I've said before many times to someone else here, if any company can satisfy the markers noted in the ruling, then they can & should take advantage of the relief.
    Right?

    Now, why was the case even necessary given Obama said everyone could keep their coverage?
    Do you think he lied?

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    Great point. Other self-insured groups, like Catholic hospitals, have gotten exemptions from some of the mandates since they end up directly paying the bills.
    That's actually a serious problem with the supposedly 'easy' solution the SC suggested was a viable alternative to the mandate. HL is self insured, so if the insurer picks up the cost of the BC options, it's with HL's money, literally. Cigna or whoever administers their healthcare plan, pays the bills, then sends HL a check once a week or whatever for the actual cost of care they paid for on behalf of HL employees, plus a fee. So the objection that is being litigated by larger self insured entities is they WILL be paying for BC, whether it's on the 'list' or not. And they recognize that 'winning' and not having BC on the 'official company list' is an empty gesture with ZERO real world effect and object. If they win, the simple accommodation suggested by the SC won't work. But the majority ignored that and waved their hands and said, no matter, good enough for now.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    That's what they said.
    It's not like they've been caught lying about healthcare promises.
    And then there's the little problem of China.....


    "The arts and crafts retailer Hobby Lobby proudly touts itself as a Christian company that puts people over profits. However, some staunch Christians say there's a gaping hole in that claim -- namely, China.

    Products bearing "Made in China" labels are found all over the shelves at Hobby Lobby, evidence that some of its wares come from Chinese factories that have a reputation for labor rights violations and rock-bottom wages. Employees at these facilities often end up working grueling hours in prison-like conditions and never earn enough to escape poverty.

    "You cannot call your business 'Christian' when arguing before the Supreme Court, and then set aside Christian values when you're placing a bulk order for cheap wind chimes," wrote Christian author and columnist Jonathan Merritt in a recent article for The Week.

    Hobby Lobby remains quiet about its dealings in China. The company did not respond to requests for a list of Chinese factories it does business with, and did not provide information about what percentage of its merchandise comes from China.

    Then there's China's controversial record on abortion......

    Christians Call Out Hobby Lobby For Hypocrisy



    Their silence speaks volumes.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    But cutting through the crap, I've said before many times to someone else here, if any company can satisfy the markers noted in the ruling, then they can & should take advantage of the relief.
    Right?
    You've said that to me and I have no idea what you mean by 'satisfy the markers.' What 'markers?' And what kind of 'relief?'

    If any company is "closely held" and the owners can reasonably assert that providing any or all of those BC options poses a 'substantial burden' on their free exercise of religion, the SC said they can deny coverage of any one or all 20 BC options by citing RFRA. If that's the kind of 'marker' and 'relief' you are speaking of, no one disagrees with you. If not, you'll have to do a better job of explaining.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by americanwoman View Post
    Nobody, did you even read that I have no problem buying my own contraceptives and that doesn't bother me at all?

    But now are you going to tell me seriously that if it had been a Muslim owned company that denied a certain prescription which would normally be covered under the insurance provider to their employees based on their Muslim beliefs and the SC backed them up that you would support that decision?
    Does it say Constitutionalist under my name or Muslim?
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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    I believe the RFRA is what codified that the government could override religious belief objections so long as the state had a compelling interest and that it didn't create a burden on compliance with no other way to achieve results. Contraception could be handled via direct subsidies from the structure of the ACA or they can drop the prescription requirement for contraception, which the ACOG stated would be a safe recommendation. Because of that, the ACA can't create a penalty( in HL case, 475 million/year ) since there are alternatives. Based on your argument, it appears your opinino is the RFRA is too strong in its ability to limit the government's ability.



    They ruled that a "closely held corporation" is just like a sole proprietor, who already had the ability via the RFRA to reject the contraception mandate. They defined the CHC as 5 or less people owning 50% of the company.

    I agree with your point regarding limited liability. This case could be used to remove that shielding, and open the CHC owners to liability. It seems like an appropriate trade off. If you want the RFRA to apply to your corp, then accept the liability of that choice.
    What about a Fundamentalist Christian who owns a corporation and believes very deeply in 2Thessalonians 3:10 (For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, If any will not work, neither let him eat.) Because of this, the Christian has a deeply held moral objection to paying for unemployment insurance. Under current law, non-profits are already exempt from paying unemployment insurance, just like religious non-profits already had an exemption to providing birth control as part of the ACA.

    Here the state obviously has a compelling interest to require corporations to pay for unemployment insurance; just as the court deemed the state had a compelling interest to require corporations to provide a portion of health care plans which covered certain care options. But there is clearly a path available to certain non-profits to avoid paying unemployment insurance. So using this ruling, because the court can envision a way for unemployment insurance to be paid without impacting the objecting Christian, that Christian corporation should be exempt from paying unemployment insurance.

    Any flaws in that logic?

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    And then there's the little problem of China.....


    "The arts and crafts retailer Hobby Lobby proudly touts itself as a Christian company that puts people over profits. However, some staunch Christians say there's a gaping hole in that claim -- namely, China.

    Products bearing "Made in China" labels are found all over the shelves at Hobby Lobby, evidence that some of its wares come from Chinese factories that have a reputation for labor rights violations and rock-bottom wages. Employees at these facilities often end up working grueling hours in prison-like conditions and never earn enough to escape poverty.

    "You cannot call your business 'Christian' when arguing before the Supreme Court, and then set aside Christian values when you're placing a bulk order for cheap wind chimes," wrote Christian author and columnist Jonathan Merritt in a recent article for The Week.

    Hobby Lobby remains quiet about its dealings in China. The company did not respond to requests for a list of Chinese factories it does business with, and did not provide information about what percentage of its merchandise comes from China.

    Then there's China's controversial record on abortion......

    Christians Call Out Hobby Lobby For Hypocrisy



    Their silence speaks volumes.
    Jonathan Merritt is a Leftist who uses the Evangelical pose to get quoted in sources like The Huffington Post.

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    Re: Supreme Court backs Hobby Lobby in contraceptive mandate challenge

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Does it say Constitutionalist under my name or Muslim?
    It actually says KnightedConstitutionalist.
    I call my own shots, largely based on an accumulation of data, and everyone knows it.
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