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Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah


So the Catholic beliefs would be law. Sounds theocratic to me but even if not, it sounds horrific and very very few people would ever want to be 'ruled' by those beliefs.

Not even most Catholics I bet, since most good Catholics do not need laws to force them or encourage them to follow their faith....they do so because they believe it's the right thing to do, God's desires for them on Earth. Someone is not much of good Catholic, Christian, or anything else if it takes anything more than their own free will to obey God's Law.

Your idea of desiring to force your offensive Catholic beliefs, which are even immoral IMO in some cases, is indeed horrific to myself and those others that God clearly TOLD had free will. (Heh, not to mention the Constitution).
 
How does it do that.



The act is still the same act.



I'm not against loving human relationships. I'm against unnatural sexual relationships.

the act is not the same one is an act f sex that can result in procreation the other is not
 
As you just quoted me saying, contraception is immoral and should be outlawed.

Fornication is also wrong, although I'm not sure it would be best to outlaw it. Although unmarried open cohabitation should probably be outlawed.

no sex out side of marriage is ok
 
a and c) I already gave the proof. If you wish, refute it.

b) The natural law prohibits abortion.



I have never advocated a theocracy.

no natural laws allow abortion because abortion exists you must be thinking of some man made law
 
I didn't say that the act of fornication is unnatural. It is irrational because humans naturally have permanent mates.

Marriage occurred 1000 years ago.

i don't naturally have a permanent mate at best you get people that decide to stay together
 
Laws would be guided by Catholic teaching.

yep that's a theocracy certainly not a secular state you want your religion to run are lives
 
The government would be run by Catholic laypersons.

and you want to keep people not in you religion out of government to boot
 
So the Catholic beliefs would be law. Sounds theocratic to me but even if not, it sounds horrific and very very few people would ever want to be 'ruled' by those beliefs.

Not even most Catholics I bet, since most good Catholics do not need laws to force them or encourage them to follow their faith....they do so because they believe it's the right thing to do, God's desires for them on Earth. Someone is not much of good Catholic, Christian, or anything else if it takes anything more than their own free will to obey God's Law.

Your idea of desiring to force your offensive Catholic beliefs, which are even immoral IMO in some cases, is indeed horrific to myself and those others that God clearly TOLD had free will. (Heh, not to mention the Constitution).

I was raised by Catholics, and they would absolutely hate the Catholic Church or religion having a say and especially the main say in our laws. They absolutely believe that things such as birth control, divorce, marrying after divorce, IVF/surrogacy, same sex marriage and gay adoption, along with many, many other things believed to be wrong or sins by the Catholic church/religion should be legal.
 
Laws would be guided by Catholic teaching.

You cannot guarantee that those laypersons would put those Catholic teachings you want into place. Many Catholics do not believe in forcing others to abide by their rules about sin, not anymore anyway, not in the US.
 
no sex out side of marriage is ok

um to be clear im not saying all sex out side of marriage is not ok

im saying its wrong to say sex out side of marriage is not ok
 
Yes it is.


no its not

their similar as their both hetero sexual acts but their different as 1 can result in procreation and the other cant 1 or 2 of true people engaging in the non fertile heterosexual sex are physically different then their counterpart in the hetero sexual sex between 2 fertile people


if you ignore that then homosexual sex can be the same hetero sexual sex

seems to be orders of magnitude to this same different thing

on 1 end every single sex act is different then another even between the same people

on the other end all sexily stimulating acts between 2 people can be groped together

in this case the important detail for you is reproduction

going with that hetero sexual sex with an infertile person is the same as homosexual sex and different from hetero sexual sex where children might be produced
 
no its not

their similar as their both hetero sexual acts but their different as 1 can result in procreation and the other cant 1 or 2 of true people engaging in the non fertile heterosexual sex are physically different then their counterpart in the hetero sexual sex between 2 fertile people


if you ignore that then homosexual sex can be the same hetero sexual sex

seems to be orders of magnitude to this same different thing

on 1 end every single sex act is different then another even between the same people

on the other end all sexily stimulating acts between 2 people can be groped together

in this case the important detail for you is reproduction

going with that hetero sexual sex with an infertile person is the same as homosexual sex and different from hetero sexual sex where children might be produced

Do you acknowledge that the physical act performed is the same one in either case?
 
Do you acknowledge that the physical act performed is the same one in either case?

They are not the same physical act. There is no natural penis entering a natural vagina when people participate in anal or oral sex, no matter the sexes of the people involved. These sexual acts are for pleasure and bonding, not procreation. They have nothing to do with the sexual act of putting a penis in the vagina and are in no way impeding that sexual act or procreation, no more than not having any sex at all does.

In fact, what you are doing, remaining celibate, not having sex at all, impedes procreation to the same extent or more as participating in oral or anal sexual activity since those activities cause bonding between people, which could lead to them wanting to raise children together, either by adopting or by using other methods to have a child, to cause procreation in a "non-traditional" way.
 
They are not the same physical act. There is no natural penis entering a natural vagina when people participate in anal or oral sex, no matter the sexes of the people involved. These sexual acts are for pleasure and bonding, not procreation. They have nothing to do with the sexual act of putting a penis in the vagina and are in no way impeding that sexual act or procreation, no more than not having any sex at all does.

In fact, what you are doing, remaining celibate, not having sex at all, impedes procreation to the same extent or more as participating in oral or anal sexual activity since those activities cause bonding between people, which could lead to them wanting to raise children together, either by adopting or by using other methods to have a child, to cause procreation in a "non-traditional" way.

Please try to keep up with the discussion. We were talking about sex between infertile persons, not heterosexual sodomy.
 
Please try to keep up with the discussion. We were talking about sex between infertile persons, not heterosexual sodomy.

Sex between infertile persons results in the same thing as pulling out or using birth control does, no procreation knowingly. Or do you presume that infertility is unknown to the majority of those who are infertile today? If you are choosing to have sex and infertile, then you are not going to make children, but are having sex for pleasure, for bonding. (And don't even try the whole "well some people are said to be infertile and have children" crap, because that is a rarity, and can't possibly happen if someone has no uterus or no sperm or no ovaries.)

So what exactly is your point? And why did you fail to address the fact that choosing not to have sex at all is inhibiting procreation more than choosing to have sex for bonding purposes?
 
Do you acknowledge that the physical act performed is the same one in either case?

depends where you want to slide the scale to so that's conditional

do you acknowledge that sex with no chance of reproduction is the same in either case when it comes to reproduction?
 
They are not the same physical act. There is no natural penis entering a natural vagina when people participate in anal or oral sex, no matter the sexes of the people involved. These sexual acts are for pleasure and bonding, not procreation. They have nothing to do with the sexual act of putting a penis in the vagina and are in no way impeding that sexual act or procreation, no more than not having any sex at all does.

In fact, what you are doing, remaining celibate, not having sex at all, impedes procreation to the same extent or more as participating in oral or anal sexual activity since those activities cause bonding between people, which could lead to them wanting to raise children together, either by adopting or by using other methods to have a child, to cause procreation in a "non-traditional" way.

that's a good point purposely obtaining from reproduction is a problem if you believe that your naughty bits have a duty to perform
 
Please try to keep up with the discussion. We were talking about sex between infertile persons, not heterosexual sodomy.

Infertile people can't procreate. If marriage is supposed to be about procreation, then infertile people shouldn't marry.
 
that's a good point purposely obtaining from reproduction is a problem if you believe that your naughty bits have a duty to perform

Woo! Mandatory fornication!
 
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