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Thread: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post

    a) Already explained.

    b) Yes, truth is truth and law is law.

    c) Sodomy is immoral, as already explained.

    .
    a) no, you have demonstrated no harm to society, you have only given an opinion that it is. Saying it is 'immoral' is completely subjective and no actual harm can be demonstrated...unless you can give some examples?

    b) so then abortion is just fine then?

    c) how is sodomy immoral? Who or what does it harm? Please prove that this is more than your opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    In other words, you believe straight sex can be moral, but gay sex cannot. We all get that, no need to dress it up, and that's fine. But that's just your belief, as deeply held as it might be. Strict Catholics don't believe in contraception, so do they get to impose their beliefs on you and outlaw it for the 90% or so of the population that don't believe as they do? Why not? Because it will inconvenience you? Many more religions do not believe sex outside of marriage is moral. That's also fine, but should our laws reflect that belief? Why not?
    As you just quoted me saying, contraception is immoral and should be outlawed.

    Fornication is also wrong, although I'm not sure it would be best to outlaw it. Although unmarried open cohabitation should probably be outlawed.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    How does it do that.



    The act is still the same act.



    I'm not against loving human relationships. I'm against unnatural sexual relationships.
    Then cut the BS about the purpose of sex is to have kids, therefore gay sex is immoral. The purpose of infertile sex cannot possibly be to have children, so if you are consistent with your argument you would have to call infertile sex immoral. Refusing to do so is hypocrisy.
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    How does it do that.

    The act is still the same act.

    I'm not against loving human relationships. I'm against unnatural sexual relationships.
    And that is your right to be "against" those relationships. What is not your right is to prevent others legally from being in those relationships or from having those relationships recognized by the government just because you believe they are "unnatural", wrong, immoral, whatever. You must show how these relationships in themselves cause problems within our society that are measurable and not due to something else, and that the problem is significant enough to warrant a law against such relationships.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    1) Sodomy contradicts the purpose of human sexuality. Space travel does not so contradict human nature. And I was referring to this thread.
    2) What haven't I defined?
    1) No, it doesn't. It doesn't result in procreation, but it doesn't prevent procreation either. And you're jumping from "unnatural" to "human nature." The two terms are not synonymous. Your original complaint was that it's "unnatural," but you've retreated from that to an even more vague term. Is murder within human nature? We kill all the time. Homosexual behavior exists in nature. Animals do it. Are they unnatural? Space travel isn't natural, no species does it naturally.
    2) You can't define the purpose of humanity.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-04-14 at 01:22 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    As you just quoted me saying, contraception is immoral and should be outlawed.

    Fornication is also wrong, although I'm not sure it would be best to outlaw it. Although unmarried open cohabitation should probably be outlawed.
    Oh wow. No point debating you, seriously. You're in favor of theocracy. Can't debate with that!

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    As you just quoted me saying, contraception is immoral and should be outlawed.

    Fornication is also wrong, although I'm not sure it would be best to outlaw it. Although unmarried open cohabitation should probably be outlawed.
    Now you're picking and choosing which things you morally approve should be illegal and which ones should be legal.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    a) no, you have demonstrated no harm to society, you have only given an opinion that it is. Saying it is 'immoral' is completely subjective and no actual harm can be demonstrated...unless you can give some examples?

    b) so then abortion is just fine then?

    c) how is sodomy immoral? Who or what does it harm? Please prove that this is more than your opinion.
    a and c) I already gave the proof. If you wish, refute it.

    b) The natural law prohibits abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Oh wow. No point debating you, seriously. You're in favor of theocracy. Can't debate with that!
    I have never advocated a theocracy.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    a and c) I already gave the proof. If you wish, refute it.

    b) The natural law prohibits abortion.

    .
    We already discussed this. There is no such thing as natural law, it is just an obvious workaround for the religious to make an argument that 'nature' is guided by a higher being or force.

    It's not so your entire argument is null and void.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Now you're picking and choosing which things you morally approve should be illegal and which ones should be legal.
    Which of these things should be banned is a prudential matter beyond the scope of this discussion. None of them should receive government support.

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