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Thread: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    The point is that the word doesn't belong to any particular group.
    Why not? Why is it wrong to recognize the traditional role that the church plays in marriage? The vast majority of Americans believe marriage to be a church / God ordained activity.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Still nowhere near tangible or specific. Something I can measure, man.
    Is it your position that only those statements of fact which can be empirically measured or tested, are true?

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Why not? Why is it wrong to recognize the traditional role that the church plays in marriage? The vast majority of Americans believe marriage to be a church / God ordained activity.
    Because the government doesn't have the authority to define marriage as between a man and a woman without indicating that doing so is "substantially related" to an "important state interest," else the measure in question is unconstitutional. The same would hold true for a business contract or a prenuptial agreement or a will.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Is it your position that only those statements of fact which can be empirically measured or tested, are true?
    It is my position that the Supreme Court of the United States of America cannot base its ruling on the repercussions it might have on someone's afterlife. Outside their jurisdiction, you see.

    So yes, you need something in the mortal realm that I can actually assess.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Again, only if you see all forms of discrimination as being equal.

    There is a clear precedent for discrimination on the basis of gender, and that's what's happening here. People are objecting to a specific form of discrimination. Yes, social acceptability plays an impact, because people are people.
    Yes people are objecting to a specific form of discrimination, and in so doing are calling into question the character of those who oppose their point of view. Using terms like "bigot" to impugn the character of advocates of traditional marriage. Meanwhile, others are undergoing discrimination without anyone giving it a second thought. Why? Because as you said all discrimination is not equal. How do we decide? Social norms. Therefore the traditionalist is no more bigoted than the social liberal that does not believe that polygamy should be allowed. The courts are not ruling on the discriminatory nature of excluding consenting parties from marrying. The courts are actively working to adjust social norms for the benefit of a certain class of individuals.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    It is my position that the Supreme Court of the United States of America cannot base its ruling on the repercussions it might have on someone's afterlife. Outside their jurisdiction, you see.

    So yes, you need something in the mortal realm that I can actually assess.
    Please answer the question.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Yes people are objecting to a specific form of discrimination, and in so doing are calling into question the character of those who oppose their point of view. Using terms like "bigot" to impugn the character of advocates of traditional marriage. Meanwhile, others are undergoing discrimination without anyone giving it a second thought. Why? Because as you said all discrimination is not equal. How do we decide? Social norms. Therefore the traditionalist is no more bigoted than the social liberal that does not believe that polygamy should be allowed. The courts are not ruling on the discriminatory nature of excluding consenting parties from marrying. The courts are actively working to adjust social norms for the benefit of a certain class of individuals.
    Advocates of traditional marriage use all sorts of awful words to describe homosexuals and those who support them. My concern is not for namecalling or who is bothered by it.

    The courts are working to uphold the constitution.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-04-14 at 12:34 AM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paleocon View Post
    Please answer the question.
    I will, when you name a specific, tangible impact same-sex marriage has on your life. I asked first, you still haven't answered.

    "I am unable to answer" is an acceptable response. At that point I will answer your question.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Because the government doesn't have the authority to define marriage as between a man and a woman without indicating that doing so is "substantially related" to an "important state interest," else the measure in question is unconstitutional. The same would hold true for a business contract or a prenuptial agreement or a will.
    The government has traditionally deferred to the judgement of the church in social matters finding that the church should be a nontaxed entity because of the "important state interest" in allowing the church to serve the people as it sees fit.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    I will, when you name a specific, tangible impact same-sex marriage has on your life. I asked first, you still haven't answered.

    "I am unable to answer" is an acceptable response. At that point I will answer your question.
    I am unable to come up with an answer meeting your criteria (which does not mean that one doesn't exist, it may or may not). Although I challenge the need for those criteria, thus my question.

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