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Thread: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

  1. #21
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    You are wrong about the strength of the legal arguments. "States rights" didn't hold up interracial marriage bans, what makes you think they work for a distinction of gender?

    Here's the part that most people don't understand because SCOTUS was sneaky on it: they've already decided in favor of marriage equality in Windsor.
    The level of scrutiny is different and SCOTUS is very conservative at this point in history.

  2. #22
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The level of scrutiny is different and SCOTUS is very conservative at this point in history.
    On the large scale, yes, they've been leaning conservative. But not on this issue.

    Same-sex marriage bans do not pass any level of scrutiny. Over and over we see this. Gender leads to intermediate scrutiny, if you think you can argue past that test, go for it. What is the important state interest that a same sex marriage ban is substantially related to?

    Seriously, Windsor already decided this. If you don't believe me, ask this guy:

    Quote Originally Posted by Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, dissenting
    In my opinion, however, the view that this Court will take of state prohibition of same-sex marriage is indicated beyond mistaking by today’s opinion. As I have said, the real rationale of today’s opinion, whatever disappearing trail of its legalistic argle-bargle one chooses to follow, is that DOMA is motivated by “ ‘bare . . . desire to harm’ ” couples in same-sex marriages. Supra, at 18. How easy it is, indeed how inevitable, to reach the same conclusion with regard to state laws denying same-sex couples marital status. Consider how easy (inevitable) it is to make the following substitutions in a passage from today’s opinion ante, at 22:
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  3. #23
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The level of scrutiny is different and SCOTUS is very conservative at this point in history.
    They have also in the past struck down marriage bans on the basis of a person not paying their child support (Zablocki v Redhail) and being incarcerated (Turner v Safley). They were both held to the lowest level of scrutiny. Same sex marriage bans should be held to the heightened level of intermediate if we are holding that interracial marriage bans were based on race because same sex marriage bans are based on sex, not sexuality. That requires an important state interest. "Because the people of the state want this" is not and should not ever be "an important state interest". In fact, it shouldn't even be considered a legitimate state interest since it could easily justify pretty much an violation of people's rights that are not specifically listed within the US Constitution, something that is not supposed to happen.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They have also in the past struck down marriage bans on the basis of a person not paying their child support (Zablocki v Redhail) and being incarcerated (Turner v Safley). They were both held to the lowest level of scrutiny. Same sex marriage bans should be held to the heightened level of intermediate if we are holding that interracial marriage bans were based on race because same sex marriage bans are based on sex, not sexuality. That requires an important state interest. "Because the people of the state want this" is not and should not ever be "an important state interest". In fact, it shouldn't even be considered a legitimate state interest since it could easily justify pretty much an violation of people's rights that are not specifically listed within the US Constitution, something that is not supposed to happen.
    Yeah, if "it was enacted" is a rational basis, then rational basis scrutiny isnt a test at all.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

  5. #25
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    the judge ruled correctly on this one. still, it was pretty surprising. same sex couples began getting married in Marion county yesterday afternoon. watched video coverage of the first one with my GF yesterday when i got home from work. neither of us could really believe it.

    here is more info, specific to Indiana :

    What it means: Questions about same-sex marriage ruling

    from what i've heard, not all counties are playing ball yet, and the AG has filed an emergency motion for a stay until the ruling can be appealed.

    if you're a same sex couple wanting to marry in Indiana, it would be a good idea to go to Boone, Hamilton, Hendricks, or Johnson county, and you should do it today. my guess is that they find a judge who will give them the emergency stay pretty soon.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    As I've written a few times, the other states should just read the handwriting on the wall and stop wasting their taxpayers' money fighting it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  7. #27
    I'm kind of a big deal

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by brothern View Post
    County officials in both Boulder, Colorado and St. Louis, Missouri issued licences yesterday in order to challenge their respective state's bans.

    St. Louis Challenges Missouri Ban on Gay Marriage - ABC News
    Boulder County Clerk begins issuing same-sex marriage licenses after historic court ruling - 7NEWS Denver TheDenverChannel.com
    Colorado I get since they are under the 10th

    Missouri though already had a challenges and legislation in the works.

    But hey thats fine by me, anything to speed up the process as long as its legal, legit and follows protocol.
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    They have also in the past struck down marriage bans on the basis of a person not paying their child support (Zablocki v Redhail) and being incarcerated (Turner v Safley). They were both held to the lowest level of scrutiny. Same sex marriage bans should be held to the heightened level of intermediate if we are holding that interracial marriage bans were based on race because same sex marriage bans are based on sex, not sexuality. That requires an important state interest. "Because the people of the state want this" is not and should not ever be "an important state interest". In fact, it shouldn't even be considered a legitimate state interest since it could easily justify pretty much an violation of people's rights that are not specifically listed within the US Constitution, something that is not supposed to happen.
    And no harm to state interests can be/has been shown.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    I have felt pain when I was in the womb. So when you say they are incapable of feeling pain, that is based on junk science.
    Quote Originally Posted by applejuicefool View Post
    A murderer putting a bullet through someone's brain is a medical procedure too.

  9. #29
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah
    And the people of Indiana and Utah lose. Not supposed to be this way.

  10. #30
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    And the people of Indiana and Utah lose. Not supposed to be this way.
    the people win cause equal rights wins, doesnt work any other way

    the opinions and wants of bigots and those that want to infringe on rights dont matter
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