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Thread: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I'm not passionate enough to say I'm in favor. I would say I'm indifferent, but in all fairness if someone said they were indifferent to abortion we would call them pro-choice, so if you want to call me pro-polygamy then go right ahead.


    Marital status is a protected class, and what's more is polygamy is bonefied religious practice in many places, thus I would say a ban of polygamy is twice as discriminatory as a ban on SSM. That the 'equality' meme doesn't address such relationships demonstrates that SSM is not about equality at all. This is just a wedge issue.
    Thanks for your honest answers. I think you are willing to be consistent. I do believe that by accepting alternative definitions of marriage it degrades the concept to an socially unacceptable level, whether that be ssm for some or polygamy for others. Any thing other than one man and one woman marriage opens up an anything goes mentality, otherwise any limits will be arbitrary. Given the push for a change in the social norms regarding marriage I would be for removing the sanction all together. Let partnership agreements be the rule for government and marriage reserved to the church.
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    since "sanction" is very vague and subjective youll have to be more specific?

    all legal contracts are sanctioned by the government
    licensed.
    "It is only when men contemplate the greatness of God that they can come to realize their own inadequacy." Jean Calvin

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    licensed.
    again youll need more than that many contracts are licensed or the license themselves are forms of contracts
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Thanks for your honest answers. I think you are willing to be consistent. I do believe that by accepting alternative definitions of marriage it degrades the concept to an socially unacceptable level, whether that be ssm for some or polygamy for others. Any thing other than one man and one woman marriage opens up an anything goes mentality, otherwise any limits will be arbitrary. Given the push for a change in the social norms regarding marriage I would be for removing the sanction all together. Let partnership agreements be the rule for government and marriage reserved to the church.
    See, being 'equal' isn't easy. So no marriage for atheists? Are you saying atheists can't have the same level of reverence and respect for the union as 'believers' might? And what if you're Muslim? Muslims don't attend 'church', and neither do Buddhists. They attend 'temple'. But what about Wiccans? They don't attend any specific building at all; more often than not it's any coven member's living room or a bonfire out in the middle of nowhere.

    Do yourself a favor and just leave the word 'marriage' alone. It's not worth the headache.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Erosion of the 10th Amendment. If the Fed wants to weigh in on marriage, hey that's great, and the only proper way is to make a Federal amendment so that marriage comes under Federal governance and is no longer left to the States.

    What happened in Loving and is happening with SSM is the Fed is ruling and a right which it has no authority to rule on.

    Gay marriage isn't about gays or marriage, its about attacking the Constitution.

    So, what we need is a federal marriage amendment defigning what marriage is and protecting fair and equal access to it.
    Was interracial marriage also about attacking the Constitution?

    We dont need an amendment, we need the states to not allow gender discrimination in (marriage) contracts.
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I think you mean that's not how SCOTUS works. I think the average American would be a mixture of impressed and horrified to learn how SCOTUS works. Did you know they figured out a way to extend their authority onto other countries? It's a nice trick, truly.

    Policy needs to come from the legislature and the legislature only. We need a marriage amendment defining what marriage is, why the state should be involved at all, and protect fair and equal access to all relationships which are not otherwise harmful. We need the same for abortion. Short of that, a person is abusing the system to feed a wedge issue.

    That your cause is just doesn't mean it is not judicial activism.
    Without the ability to strike down unconstitutional laws, the SCOTUS would be pretty pointless. And allowing the legislature to have complete control over what is constitutional gives a lot of power to the legislature. I find it laughable how much some people, mainly those who are adamant pro-states' rights over individual rights, want to give so much power to the legislature, any legislature.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Thanks for your honest answers. I think you are willing to be consistent. I do believe that by accepting alternative definitions of marriage it degrades the concept to an socially unacceptable level, whether that be ssm for some or polygamy for others. Any thing other than one man and one woman marriage opens up an anything goes mentality, otherwise any limits will be arbitrary. Given the push for a change in the social norms regarding marriage I would be for removing the sanction all together. Let partnership agreements be the rule for government and marriage reserved to the church.
    The church does not own marriage. They didn't invent it, despite some beliefs, nor do they hold any kind of copyright on it. It belongs to all of us, not just those who are religious. Marriage is what we call all unions of this certain type, not just those that are religious in nature. Heck, they started out as a private, social arrangement, no religious involvement at all. Even the Christian church didn't involve themselves in marriage in a mandatory manner until around the 10th Century, and then it was only to mandate that people needed to post announcements for their marriages in a town announcement, so that there was some sort of record of the marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by johndylan1 View Post
    Thanks for your honest answers. I think you are willing to be consistent. I do believe that by accepting alternative definitions of marriage it degrades the concept to an socially unacceptable level, whether that be ssm for some or polygamy for others. Any thing other than one man and one woman marriage opens up an anything goes mentality, otherwise any limits will be arbitrary. Given the push for a change in the social norms regarding marriage I would be for removing the sanction all together. Let partnership agreements be the rule for government and marriage reserved to the church.
    "Degrades the concept." "Attacks the institution." "Undermines moral fabric." Over and over we hear statements like this, but they're always vague. Never anything specific, anything concrete. Never a single, tangible manner in which two men marrying has any impact on your life.

    You don't own the word. Atheists get married. Adulterers get married. Buddhists get married. Divorcees get remarried.

    Church wants to use a different word? Fine. They can pick a new one. The rest of society has no reason to change.
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    Was interracial marriage also about attacking the Constitution?
    Yes. The people who banned it, and the people who took it to court instead of just removing the banners from office and replacing them with legislators who would do their job correctly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    We dont need an amendment, we need the states to not allow gender discrimination in (marriage) contracts.
    And amendment would acomplish that properly.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Without the ability to strike down unconstitutional laws, the SCOTUS would be pretty pointless. And allowing the legislature to have complete control over what is constitutional gives a lot of power to the legislature. I find it laughable how much some people, mainly those who are adamant pro-states' rights over individual rights, want to give so much power to the legislature, any legislature.
    A SSM ban is not unconstitutional because marriage is not a Constitutional right. It is left to the states to regulate.

    The only way for SCOTUS to have proper authority to rule on SSM is to make a marriage amendment.

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