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Thread: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Sure, but I don't see your point. Did you think I was denying that marriage is a right?
    We don't need an amendment for it to be an issue protected by the constitution. All rights, enumerated or not, are protected under it. That makes it a 14th amendment issue.
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I know marriage is a right. I said it wasnt in the Constitution, not that it wasn't a right. I support marriage being put into the Constitution with an Amendment just like women's right to vote had to be.
    And including or excluding gays?
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Lursa View Post
    And including or excluding gays?
    Including all relationships which aren't otherwise harmful. Gays, polygamists, heteros, etc.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    We don't need an amendment for it to be an issue protected by the constitution.
    We do need an Amendment, and another reason why is because marriage policy, like all policy, should come from the legislature, not the court.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    We do need an Amendment, and another reason why is because marriage policy, like all policy, should come from the legislature, not the court.
    It already did come from the legislature with the 14th amendment. How is this difficult to understand? It applies to all rights, not just the ones they were thinking of the 1860s.
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    It already did come from the legislature with the 14th amendment. How is this difficult to understand? It applies to all rights, not just the ones they were thinking of the 1860s.
    Thats what women thought as they brought their voting rights argument before SCOTUS.

    Relying on the court to make policy is bad practice. Better to deal with unwilling states by having Congress legislate that univercal reciprocity of State marriage licences is a condition of recieving education and highway funding.

    I know you people like to think that SSM is about indivigual rights, but that was never true. Thats the elotional appeal you're told to manipulate you. SSM, like many other issues, is about eroding States rights. Government has never, does not, and will never give a **** about your 'rights'. The government only cares about controling you.
    Last edited by Jerry; 06-28-14 at 09:55 PM.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Thats what women thought as they brought their voting rights argument before SCOTUS.

    Relying on the court to make policy is bad practice. Better to deal with unwilling states by having Congress legislate that univercal reciprocity of State marriage licences is a condition of recieving education and highway funding.

    I know you people like to think that SSM is about indivigual rights, but that was never true. Thats the elotional appeal you're told to manipulate you. SSM, like many other issues, is about eroding States rights. Government has never, does not, and will never give a **** about your 'rights'. The government only cares about controling you.
    Interracial marriage would then have been the same thing, an emotional issue which eroded states' rights. The state only has the right to regulate something, limit something that treats individuals differently when they can show that doing so furthers a legitimate state interest. Scrutiny still is part of the judicial process when it comes to constitutional law.
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Thats what women thought as they brought their voting rights argument before SCOTUS.

    Relying on the court to make policy is bad practice. Better to deal with unwilling states by having Congress legislate that univercal reciprocity of State marriage licences is a condition of recieving education and highway funding.

    I know you people like to think that SSM is about indivigual rights, but that was never true. Thats the elotional appeal you're told to manipulate you. SSM, like many other issues, is about eroding States rights. Government has never, does not, and will never give a **** about your 'rights'. The government only cares about controling you.
    Do you think homosexual couples wanting recognition believe it's about eroding states rights?
    And how, exactly, does the government gain more control over anybody from this?
    And how, exactly, did you get the idea that marriage equality was being driven by the government? You're right. The government doesn't care. But we do.
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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Thats what women thought as they brought their voting rights argument before SCOTUS.
    And I think we can agree that it was never right to keep women from voting, just as it was never right to keep gays from marrying.

    Relying on the court to make policy is bad practice. Better to deal with unwilling states by having Congress legislate that univercal reciprocity of State marriage licences is a condition of recieving education and highway funding.
    Congress should have done this, but it's full of conservatives from confederate states who think their personal religious beliefs trump people's rights, so we have to do it this way instead. Besides, the court isn't making policy. It's enforcing the policy the people have chosen. But the few people who determine primary elections are those same conservatives who think their religion is more important than liberty.

    I know you people like to think that SSM is about indivigual rights, but that was never true. Thats the elotional appeal you're told to manipulate you. SSM, like many other issues, is about eroding States rights. Government has never, does not, and will never give a **** about your 'rights'. The government only cares about controling you.
    Why do you think state governments are any different? And of course, my support of SSM came from being a civil rights attorney who is actually well versed in constitutional law and I just sat down, read the case law, and figured it out for myself since it's an extremely open and shut issue. States don't have or need rights. People do. People have a right to representation, at multiple levels of government, but those levels have no rights unto themselves. And so I return to my previous question, why do you think state governments don't just care about controlling you, but the federal does?
    Liberté. Égalité. Fraternité.

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    Re: Gay marriage wins in Indiana and Utah

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Interracial marriage would then have been the same thing, an emotional issue which eroded states' rights. The state only has the right to regulate something, limit something that treats individuals differently when they can show that doing so furthers a legitimate state interest. Scrutiny still is part of the judicial process when it comes to constitutional law.
    Yes, Loving is part of that erosion process. That's a good point.

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