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Syrian Warplanes Strike in Western Iraq, Killing at Least 50 People

polgara said:
The problem is that there have been so many "thems" added since then, that it's difficult to find enough days in the week to keep them all straight - not to mention the fact that alliances keep shifting, so one is never sure if they're hating the right people on any given day! :mrgreen:

Greetings, Pero. :2wave:
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Yeah, me included. So tell me, who are our friends and who are our enemies when it comes to Iraq. I sure can't figure it out.
 
US Conservative said:
Me too, which means it will never happen.
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Maybe some day it will happen but not during the last years of the Obama administration. Things will continue to deteriorate. I got to tell you with the way things are unfolding in the ME while several despots are rattling their swords and becoming aggressive because there is no "super power" to stop them, I just want all our men/women in uniform out of that area ASAP because they do not have a Commander in Chief in charge with their best interest. With the explosion of terrorism throughout whether they go by the name of ISSA, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, their goals are all the same. And that is a Fascist Islamic State that teaches all are infidels but them. I don't think the left side of the aisle has grasped that one yet and maybe they never will. Hell they are so political correct they can't fathom profiling.
 
Perotista said:
Yeah, me included. So tell me, who are our friends and who are our enemies when it comes to Iraq. I sure can't figure it out.
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Beats me! That's why I decided not to concern myself with it, cause it'll probably change tomorrow! :lamo:
 
US Conservative said:
Neither would I-thats par for the course there. Incidentally, there is interesting viewing and discussion here. Syrian Uprising - Photos & Videos - no discussion, no conversation - Page 1236

The discussion threads often have locals involved in the fighting making comments that no media source can effectively convey. Often, the events covered there become western news days later.
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Cheney is now shown to be correct in a 1994 interview. 9/11 however change the focus, making it more desirable to take the risk.



Here is an interesting video from 2007:

Open Phones | Video | C-SPAN.org
 
Lord of Planar said:
Are you suggesting things haven't changed since that 1994 video?

Does you mind ever change as variables in your life change, or are you stuck on all the same thoughts you had 8 years earlier?
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Would you be extending the same benefit of the doubt to a liberal politician when he flip flops on his position.
 
polgara said:
Beats me! That's why I decided not to concern myself with it, cause it'll probably change tomorrow! :lamo:
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I wouldn't be a bit surprised to find out tomorrow AQ has stepped into the fray to help out Miliki since they kicked ISIS out of AQ and they have a soft spot for the shia or something like that. Crazy, can't be much crazier than being on the same side with Iran and Syria. Oh, and Putin too indirectly.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Are you suggesting things haven't changed since that 1994 video?
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While things may have changed the results in Iraq that Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney described are true and have been since the start.
 
US Conservative said:
Cheney was the VP. I know you lefties can't stand him but its not terribly important. I just posted video with Biden saying we should go into Iraq.

Now what?
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Biden was wrong, too! More proof that both parties are disposable.
 
Perotista said:
Putin can do pretty much what he wants. But before America takes military action she better makes sure she has the majority of people on her side. If the presidents wants to take military action, he better explain it in good detail why it is necessary to the American people and start convincing people. Especially members of his own party. I would advise after talking to the American people he also goes to congress for their okay. I am sure the Republicans would give him their votes on this, but could he get his own parties votes? This isn't Libya.

Iraq is such a mess, I hope advisers is all that is needed from us. But then you have a couple of shia clerics telling the U.S. to keep our advisers out of Iraq. That is all we need, the very people we are sending in advisers to help, them starting to kill our advisers. If it were me, I would be sitting on the sidelines for awhile longer. I wonder if old age hadn't turned this old warhawk into a dove, ala McGovern. Perhaps just more cautious than the rest, I mean having been there and done that. Abet from a different war.
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Bush and Roosevelt have proved you can deceive the people into supporting your war.
 
TheNextEra said:
While things may have changed the results in Iraq that Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney described are true and have been since the start.
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Especially since Clinton kept antagonizing Saddam.

Were you aware of this:

Presidential Radio Address | Video | C-SPAN.org

Start at the 1 minute mark.

It was known all along that there was the possibility of Iraq not recovering. Maybe Iraq wouldn't have been as bad as it had become by 2003 if Clinton left it alone.
 
Montecresto said:
Bush and Roosevelt have proved you can deceive the people into supporting your war.
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I can understand you feeling this way about Bush, but FDR? The Japs bombed pearl Harbor, then Germany declared war on us and we reciprocated.
 
Lord of Planar said:
Especially since Clinton kept antagonizing Saddam.

Were you aware of this:

Presidential Radio Address | Video | C-SPAN.org

Start at the 1 minute mark.

It was known all along that there was the possibility of Iraq not recovering. Maybe Iraq wouldn't have been as bad as it had become by 2003 if Clinton left it alone.
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We should have stayed out of the ME period. Either way, the fact remains that Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney was correct. The fact we toppled Saddam made it exponentially worse.
 
vesper said:
Maybe some day it will happen but not during the last years of the Obama administration. Things will continue to deteriorate. I got to tell you with the way things are unfolding in the ME while several despots are rattling their swords and becoming aggressive because there is no "super power" to stop them, I just want all our men/women in uniform out of that area ASAP because they do not have a Commander in Chief in charge with their best interest. With the explosion of terrorism throughout whether they go by the name of ISSA, Al Qaeda, Boko Haram, their goals are all the same. And that is a Fascist Islamic State that teaches all are infidels but them. I don't think the left side of the aisle has grasped that one yet and maybe they never will. Hell they are so political correct they can't fathom profiling.
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To be honest I dont blame the events in ME on any American-because this goes back much longer than we can imagine. American Presidents like to think they can change that region but they can't. We dont even have the frame of reference. However-I can and DO hold our President responsible for the things he can and does control, like withdrawing troops of leaving the ME to extremists who WILL attack us.

Im less concerned about "protecting" our military by withdrawing them. The point is to fight them there so we dont have to fight them here. Our military WANTS to do this. Its polictics-and the willingness to lose for political purposes that drives me nuts.

I think a particularly fitting outcome from our "open minded" liberals would be to ship them to the west bank, or ISIS, or Afghanistan. Let them get acquainted, surely they will come to an understanding. :cool:
 
US Conservative said:
I think a particularly fitting outcome from our "open minded" liberals would be to ship them to the west bank, or ISIS, or Afghanistan. Let them get acquainted, surely they will come to an understanding. :cool:
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I think we should ship the warhawk conservatives that "want" to fight a war over there and let them do it. That would be YOU. Get to it. There are volunteer spots just for YOU, oh wait, you're to busy on an internet chat board.
 
Montecresto said:
Biden was wrong, too! More proof that both parties are disposable.
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They dont have any power. VP's dont set policy, they are mouthpieces for the president. Thats what they do.
But if the criteria for being a good leader is always being right-you are going to be disappointed.
 
Perotista said:
I can understand you feeling this way about Bush, but FDR? The Japs bombed pearl Harbor, then Germany declared war on us and we reciprocated.
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Japan bombed us after a major, albeit quiet campaign against Japan designed to illicit such an attack, well documented this is in secretary Stimsons diary. A Gallop poll in April of 42 had 80% of Americans steadfastly against US involvement in another world war. A huge impediment for any president. Simultaneously, Germany was being provoked as well, only Hitler knew better than to take the bait. The day after the anticipated attack on PH, the same Gallop poll nicely reversed.
 
TheNextEra said:
I think we should ship the warhawk conservatives that "want" to fight a war over there and let them do it. That would be YOU. Get to it. There are volunteer spots just for YOU, oh wait, you're to busy on an internet chat board.
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This is always just so clever. Obama went into Libya why? He aided FSA why? Im sorry but your silly notion that only those in the military should have a voice is insane.

I dont want to lose the war on terror to muslim fundamentalists, why do you?
 
US Conservative said:
They dont have any power. VP's dont set policy, they are mouthpieces for the president. Thats what they do.
But if the criteria for being a good leader is always being right-you are going to be disappointed.
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Who's talking about VP power? You brought up Biden to bolster your argument that democrats supported the invasion.
 
TheNextEra said:
I think we should ship the warhawk conservatives that "want" to fight a war over there and let them do it. That would be YOU. Get to it. There are volunteer spots just for YOU, oh wait, you're to busy on an internet chat board.
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Funny!!
 
US Conservative said:
This is always just so clever. Obama went into Libya why? He aided FSA why? Im sorry but your silly notion that only those in the military should have a voice is insane.

I dont want to lose the war on terror to muslim fundamentalists, why do you?
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If you don't want to lose the war, what are you doing here? You should volunteer to go over there. Hurry up you stud you. What are you doing on an internet chat board, go win the war. What are you waiting for?
 
Montecresto said:
Japan bombed us after a major, albeit quiet campaign against Japan designed to illicit such an attack, well documented this is in secretary Stimsons diary. A Gallop poll in April of 42 had 80% of Americans steadfastly against US involvement in another world war. A huge impediment for any president. Simultaneously, Germany was being provoked as well, only Hitler knew better than to take the bait. The day after the anticipated attack on PH, the same Gallop poll nicely reversed.
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Silly and ignorant. We cut off oil to Japan BECAUSE THEY WERE INVADING AND RAPING AND KILLING IN CHINA. You dont appease people who do things like this-it never ends well.
 
US Conservative said:
Silly and ignorant. We cut off oil to Japan BECAUSE THEY WERE INVADING AND RAPING AND KILLING IN CHINA. You dont appease people who do things like this-it never ends well.
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That's hardly all Roosevelt did, that was just the part congress was privy to and supported.
 
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