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U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

And yet you assumed mine were, and I hadnt.

Why wouldn't I, particularly when it comes to space. The longevity of our species depends on getting off this planet hence why I asked you when will it become important to you.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

You have yet to offer nothing other than your personal opinion. It isn't the Federal Govt's role to take care of people in your local community as it was never set up to do that and has no business doing that. People closest to the situation are the ones. Interesting how the people of TX seem to handle their own problems and only when the Federal Govt. gets involved do things get screwed up and cost more than intended doing less than intended. You continue to promote bigger govt. in spite of the poor Federal Govt. results.

By the way, did you serve in Iraq? I had three family members that did and they have a different opinion of the war than those who don't and who simply buy what they are told.

1) Keeping Americans alive & fed is not poor results. And why do you insist on dodging the example of Detroit? You maintain that it is the local & state governments responsibility. But do you believe that is actually feasible without sacrificing the rest of the people in the state who are in need because of considerably more restricted funds? Look, I get that the Constitution was not set up for it but I doubt our Founding Fathers anticipated a 340,000,000 or so population in this country & the problems associated with it or a hyper-competitive globalized world. Basically, what I'm driving at is that we shouldn't allow words on paper that cannot handle being exposed to air to restrict our country's ability to help & keep our brothers & sisters alive. A modern humanitarian crisis is a valid rationale for superseding 230+ year old words.

2) Negative, I did not serve in Iraq. And like you & millions of other Americans, I know countless guys who did which includes many of my friends from my hometown who I've known for 20+ years & countless brothers in the Corps. There is hardly a favorable consensus among veterans on the merits of the War which is only getting worse due to the current situation in which vets of the War are likening it to "their Vietnam experience." And the problems with the VA are only exacerbating the situation.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango;1063470418]1) Keeping Americans alive & fed is not poor results. And why do you insist on dodging the example of Detroit? You maintain that it is the local & state governments responsibility. But do you believe that is actually feasible without sacrificing the rest of the people in the state who are in need because of considerably more restricted funds? Look, I get that the Constitution was not set up for it but I doubt our Founding Fathers anticipated a 340,000,000 or so population in this country & the problems associated with it or a hyper-competitive globalized world. Basically, what I'm driving at is that we shouldn't allow words on paper that cannot handle being exposed to air to restrict our country's ability to help & keep our brothers & sisters alive. A modern humanitarian crisis is a valid rationale for superseding 230+ year old words.

So you believe we need a 3.8 trillion dollar Federal Govt. to keep people alive? You really are very naive, very poorly informed, and have no concept as to what your taxes fund at the Federal, State, and local levels. Michigan has extremely high taxes and you believe those aren't enough to keep people properly fed and alive? Stop thinking only with your heart.

You really believe that the rest of the people in the state would be sacrificed because they took care of the people of Detroit? Where do you get this information? Do you have any Charities in Detroit like St. Vincent de Paul? Texas seems to have gotten it right but why not Michigan? TX is the fastest growing state in the nation and number two in population so if it can be done here it can be done in Michigan.

2) Negative, I did not serve in Iraq. And like you & millions of other Americans, I know countless guys who did which includes many of my friends from my hometown who I've known for 20+ years & countless brothers in the Corps. There is hardly a favorable consensus among veterans on the merits of the War which is only getting worse due to the current situation in which vets of the War are likening it to "their Vietnam experience." And the problems with the VA are only exacerbating the situation.

So your opinion of the war comes from what you get in the media and although I respect your friends' opinions I do have empathy for the disaster that Obama has created. Bush won the war and Obama lost the peace. He ignored the Status of Forces agreement and because Iraq was the "wrong" war, did nothing to negotiate American troops remaining in Iraq like they have done in Korea and Germany. It is like Vietnam because our military won the war and the bureaucrats lost the peace. Happens all the time and yet this is who you want funding programs to feed people in Michigan? Wow
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

I suppose you cant help the world but doing what is in your power is what matters.....

For instance not every person can feed the homeless in the US but you can donate to 2-3....

To sit back and do nothing about Iraq would be wrong. I don't agree with the way it was done but I'm certainly satisfied that Saadam got what he bargained for..... That was justice. However today - Iraq is in anarchy.

Obama shouldn't even be able to pretend to know what he is doing....

Yes, Saddam being found in a spider hole and being hung to death was fitting for a demon of his caliber. But there are many like him walking around free & alive today, like the fat ass tyrant from North Korea or the "Supreme Leader" of Iran or the dictatorial monarchies around the world including allies. Should we invade them all too? If no, why not? People are treated terribly there too. Or is there a specific body count # that must be reached before our intervention can be launched? 60,000 dead? If yes, we're invading Mexico to wipe out the cartels whom we armed. 100,000 dead? Then we're invading Syria in which we'll start killing the rebels we've spent hundreds of millions on.

The humanitarian angle in geopolitics is just lip service, man, because U.S. foreign policy has ignored countless humanitarian catastrophes over the years.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

So you believe we need a 3.8 trillion dollar Federal Govt. to keep people alive? You really are very naive, very poorly informed, and have no concept as to what your taxes fund at the Federal, State, and local levels. Michigan has extremely high taxes and you believe those aren't enough to keep people properly fed and alive? Stop thinking only with your heart.

You really believe that the rest of the people in the state would be sacrificed because they took care of the people of Detroit? Where do you get this information? Do you have any Charities in Detroit like St. Vincent de Paul? Texas seems to have gotten it right but why not Michigan? TX is the fastest growing state in the nation and number two in population so if it can be done here it can be done in Michigan.

So your opinion of the war comes from what you get in the media and although I respect your friends' opinions I do have empathy for the disaster that Obama has created. Bush won the war and Obama lost the peace. He ignored the Status of Forces agreement and because Iraq was the "wrong" war, did nothing to negotiate American troops remaining in Iraq like they have done in Korea and Germany. It is like Vietnam because our military won the war and the bureaucrats lost the peace. Happens all the time and yet this is who you want funding programs to feed people in Michigan? Wow


1) I get my information about the Iraq War same as you: people I know who were there, media, think tanks, the government & documentation they allow to see the light of day in the public arena.

2) As I said to another member here in regards to the Status of Forces agreement, what was supposed to be done once Maliki & now Karzai said, "**** you America, I don't want you or your troops' help, get the **** out of my country." We don't have Jedis who can wave a hand in their face and say, "You want us here." So what was supposed to be done? Assassinate Maliki? Replace him with someone we could control? If we did that we'd be ****ting all over one of our biggest rationales: liberating the people of Iraq & creating a democracy. So, tell me, how would you negotiate with Maliki after he like Karzai absolutely refused to agree to give our boys immunity from Iraqi law - how do you get him to change his mind?

3) Of course there are charities in Detroit. However, private sponsored philanthropy only goes so far.

4) A $3,800,000,000,000 budget is of course excessive. The budget and our debt alongside it have been growing even before I was born. 9/11 intensified our spending as did the 2008 financial crisis both of which were outside the control of private citizens who of course, took the brunt of the calamities created by other people. It would be one of the worst mistakes this country's government has ever made if they cut off assistance to 10,000,000+ people who still need it because they've yet to recover from the devastation brought upon them. I don't see how anyone in good conscience could suggest such a thing for their fellow citizen.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

1) I get my information about the Iraq War same as you: people I know who were there, media, think tanks, the government & documentation they allow to see the light of day in the public arena.

2) As I said to another member here in regards to the Status of Forces agreement, what was supposed to be done once Maliki & now Karzai said, "**** you America, I don't want you or your troops' help, get the **** out of my country." We don't have Jedis who can wave a hand in their face and say, "You want us here." So what was supposed to be done? Assassinate Maliki? Replace him with someone we could control? If we did that we'd be ****ting all over one of our biggest rationales: liberating the people of Iraq & creating a democracy. So, tell me, how would you negotiate with Maliki after he like Karzai absolutely refused to agree to give our boys immunity from Iraqi law - how do you get him to change his mind?

3) Of course there are charities in Detroit. However, private sponsored philanthropy only goes so far.

4) A $3,800,000,000,000 budget is of course excessive. The budget and our debt alongside it have been growing even before I was born. 9/11 intensified our spending as did the 2008 financial crisis both of which were outside the control of private citizens who of course, took the brunt of the calamities created by other people. It would be one of the worst mistakes this country's government has ever made if they cut off assistance to 10,000,000+ people who still need it because they've yet to recover from the devastation brought upon them. I don't see how anyone in good conscience could suggest such a thing for their fellow citizen.


I am sure that is the liberal version of what they want to believe happened but the reality is that Obama in his arrogant best never supported the Iraq War and did not negotiate in good faith with anyone including the so called "good" war. You continue to believe what you are told and never do any research to verify the rhetoric. why is that?

Private sponsored philanthropy will go as far as the govt. will allow it and the penalties that Obama and liberals have put on charitable giving as well as the threat of higher taxes on individual taxpayers hurts charities and puts more pressure on the govt. to fill in the gap, a liberal dream.

I am still waiting for you to prove that your state with among the highest taxes in the nation cannot take care of those truly in need. Again stop thinking with your heart and use the brain.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Yes, Saddam being found in a spider hole and being hung to death was fitting for a demon of his caliber. But there are many like him walking around free & alive today, like the fat ass tyrant from North Korea or the "Supreme Leader" of Iran or the dictatorial monarchies around the world including allies. Should we invade them all too? If no, why not? People are treated terribly there too. Or is there a specific body count # that must be reached before our intervention can be launched? 60,000 dead? If yes, we're invading Mexico to wipe out the cartels whom we armed. 100,000 dead? Then we're invading Syria in which we'll start killing the rebels we've spent hundreds of millions on.

The humanitarian angle in geopolitics is just lip service, man, because U.S. foreign policy has ignored countless humanitarian catastrophes over the years.

Maybe...
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

I am sure that is the liberal version of what they want to believe happened but the reality is that Obama in his arrogant best never supported the Iraq War and did not negotiate in good faith with anyone including the so called "good" war. You continue to believe what you are told and never do any research to verify the rhetoric. why is that?

Private sponsored philanthropy will go as far as the govt. will allow it and the penalties that Obama and liberals have put on charitable giving as well as the threat of higher taxes on individual taxpayers hurts charities and puts more pressure on the govt. to fill in the gap, a liberal dream.

I am still waiting for you to prove that your state with among the highest taxes in the nation cannot take care of those truly in need. Again stop thinking with your heart and use the brain.

Okay, since you're apparently in the know more than most, what happened with SOF agreement?
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q


Sorry, but there is no maybe about it, it's what has happened.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Okay, since you're apparently in the know more than most, what happened with SOF agreement?

A date was set for the U.S. Withdrawal and terms were to be established for a force to remain. Obama failed to negotiate with Iraq and wanted to appease his base by taking credit for the withdrawal, a withdrawal negotiated by the Bush Administration. Obama is an arrogant ass, unqualified for the office and we are seeing the results today.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

A date was set for the U.S. Withdrawal and terms were to be established for a force to remain. Obama failed to negotiate with Iraq and wanted to appease his base by taking credit for the withdrawal, a withdrawal negotiated by the Bush Administration. Obama is an arrogant ass, unqualified for the office and we are seeing the results today.

While President Obama can be blamed for lots of things, the withdrawal from Iraq cannot be laid at his doorstep, which is unfortunate for conservatives like yourself:

“When the Americans asked for immunity, the Iraqi side answered that it was not possible,” al-Maliki told reporters in Baghdad. “The discussions over the number of trainers and the place of training stopped. Now that the issue of immunity was decided and that no immunity to be given, the withdrawal has started.”

Iraq prime minister: Immunity issue scuttled U.S. troop deal - Washington Times



So now we're back to my original point before this side-tracking was done: what was President Obama supposed to do? Kill Maliki & install a new leader to the U.S.'s liking? Or bend over backwards to cater to & convince some moron that if we left a power vacuum would happen, which is considerably beneath the stature of a President of the United States: begging & pleading with some two-bit piece of ****, of which, if ever discovered, the lunatic fringe right-wing would be ****ING HOWLING about it.

So again, what EXACTLY would YOU have done as POTUS if your counterpart in Iraq said no to immunity. Vague & non-specific answers like, "I'd negotiate," will be received as a non-answer and therefore another dodge.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Why wouldn't I, particularly when it comes to space. The longevity of our species depends on getting off this planet hence why I asked you when will it become important to you.

You wouldnt because this is a debate forum and you should respect that other people have a different viewpoints, not imply they are shallow when they express them. You asked what I thought was unnecessary, I answered and you called me shallow. If you want to have a debate about my answers, im up for that, but not if you are going to insult me along the way.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

...what was President Obama supposed to do? Kill Maliki & install a new leader to the U.S.'s liking?

IMO, given Maliki's having established himself as a sectarian, not national leader, the U.S. should have backed Ayad Allawi after Allawi's bloc gained the largest number of seats in the 2010 elections.

Allawi reaches out after Iraq election win

Unfortunately, the U.S. has a tendency to become fixated on personalities rather than interests. A similar dynamic holds true with respect to Karzai in Afghanistan. This fixation spans multiple Administrations.

In any case, policy makers can't get tied up looking backward to the past. They need to focus on today and tomorrow. The caliphate that has been declared poses a threat to U.S. regional interests and strategic allies. It also has balance of power implications. Among the questions the U.S. urgently needs to answer include:

1. What will the U.S. do to maintain a balance of power that precludes Iran from exploiting instability in Iraq to enhance its influence/move closer to regional hegemony and safeguards the security of regional U.S. allies?

2. Will the U.S. seek to substantially eradicate ISIS? If not, will it seek to contain the caliphate to mitigate the risk that it could further destabilize a historically volatile region?

3. If Grand Ayatollah Sistani's efforts to seek an inclusive Iraqi government fail--and it is incredible that Iraq's parliament could not achieve a quorum when the country faces an existential threat--will the U.S. back a Kurdish state (likely to be stable and relatively prosperous) and the creation of a state or states by the majority Shia and Sunni tribes not affiliated with ISIS? IMO, the U.S. should weigh in and express support for Sistani's efforts.

4. Would the U.S. be willing to negotiate a status of forces agreement with any successor states that emerge should Iraq not be salvageable (e.g., Sistani's efforts fail)?

5. Will the U.S. refrain from carrying out policies that are contradictory e.g., terminate sending weapons to anti-Assad forces in Syria even as those elements more closely serve ISIS's interests (not all are aligned with it, but their success creates the kind of power vacuums that ISIS can exploit, etc.)?

6. Is the U.S. finally prepared to put aside idealistic notions that democratic aspirations drive Mideast uprisings when, in fact, sectarian issues not democracy are the fundamental drivers of the mislabeled "Arab Spring" so that the U.S. could pursue more sober but attainable foreign policy goals in the Mideast?

Many of those questions contain economic, military, and foreign aid dimensions. Once the U.S. has determined its answers, it will need to make the resources available so that the policies can be pursued in a fashion that has a chance of success.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

While President Obama can be blamed for lots of things, the withdrawal from Iraq cannot be laid at his doorstep, which is unfortunate for conservatives like yourself:



Iraq prime minister: Immunity issue scuttled U.S. troop deal - Washington Times



So now we're back to my original point before this side-tracking was done: what was President Obama supposed to do? Kill Maliki & install a new leader to the U.S.'s liking? Or bend over backwards to cater to & convince some moron that if we left a power vacuum would happen, which is considerably beneath the stature of a President of the United States: begging & pleading with some two-bit piece of ****, of which, if ever discovered, the lunatic fringe right-wing would be ****ING HOWLING about it.

So again, what EXACTLY would YOU have done as POTUS if your counterpart in Iraq said no to immunity. Vague & non-specific answers like, "I'd negotiate," will be received as a non-answer and therefore another dodge.

Most people know that is what is being reported but the question is how do you know that issue couldn't have been negotiated. It was Obama arrogance that prevented negotiation of that issue and most people know it. Obama is taking credit for ending the war in Iraq but that is what he always does, takes credit but never responsibility
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Most people know that is what is being reported but the question is how do you know that issue couldn't have been negotiated. It was Obama arrogance that prevented negotiation of that issue and most people know it. Obama is taking credit for ending the war in Iraq but that is what he always does, takes credit but never responsibility

Again, what would you have done?
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Again, what would you have done?

I would have treated the leader of Iraq with respect and negotiated a peace keeping force like we did in Korea. Obama is an arrogant ass who believes he is a king and acted like that with foreign leaders. He lost the peace in Iraq and is going to lose the war in Afghanistan even though he says it is the "good" war. Imagine the blood and treasure lost in both Iraq and Afghanistan squandered by Obama
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Back in the real world....

There's lots of economic news coming out this week, and the first bit is positive. June auto sales apparently beat forecasts, by half a million units. It's probably due to *cough* pent-up demand from the bad winter.

June Auto Sales Beat Forecast - Business Insider
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Back in the real world....

There's lots of economic news coming out this week, and the first bit is positive. June auto sales apparently beat forecasts, by half a million units. It's probably due to *cough* pent-up demand from the bad winter.

June Auto Sales Beat Forecast - Business Insider

Wonder how many of them are GM Cars that will have to be recalled?
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

I would have treated the leader of Iraq with respect and negotiated a peace keeping force like we did in Korea. Obama is an arrogant ass who believes he is a king and acted like that with foreign leaders. He lost the peace in Iraq and is going to lose the war in Afghanistan even though he says it is the "good" war. Imagine the blood and treasure lost in both Iraq and Afghanistan squandered by Obama

That's the thing though, man, we don't know how their conversations went. And honestly, starting negotiations from behind someone else's red line I.e. they've already said no to your request, isn't often conducive to success. Besides, pleading, begging or bribing an incredibly lower ranked head of state is orders of magnitude below the President of the United States. Killing Maliki & installing someone who'd do our bidding would have been counter to many pillars of our mission in Iraq. And if President Obama or a high-ranking official from the administration threatened Maliki it would have made headline news & also been contrary to our mission there.

You can call him whatever you'd like, but blaming him for Iraq isn't valid criticism.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

You wouldnt because this is a debate forum and you should respect that other people have a different viewpoints, not imply they are shallow when they express them. You asked what I thought was unnecessary, I answered and you called me shallow. If you want to have a debate about my answers, im up for that, but not if you are going to insult me along the way.

My apologies.

Shall we continue?
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Retail sales have rebounded, biggest year-over-year jump since December 2011:


chart-1003.jpg
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Hillary Clinton slams Obama economy: 'Dream feels further and further out of reach'

In a speech in Washington on Friday, Hillary Clinton repeatedly criticized economic and social conditions under President Obama, barely mentioning the accomplishments of the man who appointed her secretary of State. Clinton's address, at the New America Foundation, was a broad indictment of the country's current leadership, with exactly one -- one -- note of praise for the Democratic president Clinton has called her partner and friend.

Clinton, never known for self-effacement, began by noting her lifelong desire to make the world a better place and the "driving force" toward public service instilled in her by her mother. From there, Clinton went on to describe the United States today as a very troubled place. Millions of Americans are "frustrated, even angry" about today's economy, Clinton said. Falling into poverty is a constant threat, and upward mobility is almost impossible. "Forget about getting rich," Clinton told the audience, "I'm talking about getting into the middle class and staying there."

What can we do about it?" Clinton asked. "Of course, a lot depends on our leadership, here in Washington and around the country." One might assume that Clinton would take that opportunity to praise the current president. But no. Instead, Clinton focused on another Democratic administration. "The 1990s taught us," she said, harkening back to the days Bill Clinton was in the White House, "that even in the face of difficult long-term economic trends, its possible through smart policies and sound investments to enjoy broad-based growth and shared prosperity." At that point, Clinton took a few moments to recount her husband's economic record.....snip~

Hillary Clinton slams Obama economy: 'Dream feels further and further out of reach' | WashingtonExaminer.com


Yeah Hillary tell it like it is.....for a change. :mrgreen:
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

My apologies.

Shall we continue?

Sure. But I think we covered it. I have no problem cutting defense. But what are liberals going to give up in return?
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

That's the thing though, man, we don't know how their conversations went. And honestly, starting negotiations from behind someone else's red line I.e. they've already said no to your request, isn't often conducive to success. Besides, pleading, begging or bribing an incredibly lower ranked head of state is orders of magnitude below the President of the United States. Killing Maliki & installing someone who'd do our bidding would have been counter to many pillars of our mission in Iraq. And if President Obama or a high-ranking official from the administration threatened Maliki it would have made headline news & also been contrary to our mission there.

You can call him whatever you'd like, but blaming him for Iraq isn't valid criticism.


Your opinion noted but since Obama is the one who took credit for Iraq the criticism today is legitimate.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Hillary Clinton slams Obama economy: 'Dream feels further and further out of reach'

In a speech in Washington on Friday, Hillary Clinton repeatedly criticized economic and social conditions under President Obama, barely mentioning the accomplishments of the man who appointed her secretary of State. Clinton's address, at the New America Foundation, was a broad indictment of the country's current leadership, with exactly one -- one -- note of praise for the Democratic president Clinton has called her partner and friend.

Clinton, never known for self-effacement, began by noting her lifelong desire to make the world a better place and the "driving force" toward public service instilled in her by her mother. From there, Clinton went on to describe the United States today as a very troubled place. Millions of Americans are "frustrated, even angry" about today's economy, Clinton said. Falling into poverty is a constant threat, and upward mobility is almost impossible. "Forget about getting rich," Clinton told the audience, "I'm talking about getting into the middle class and staying there."

What can we do about it?" Clinton asked. "Of course, a lot depends on our leadership, here in Washington and around the country." One might assume that Clinton would take that opportunity to praise the current president. But no. Instead, Clinton focused on another Democratic administration. "The 1990s taught us," she said, harkening back to the days Bill Clinton was in the White House, "that even in the face of difficult long-term economic trends, its possible through smart policies and sound investments to enjoy broad-based growth and shared prosperity." At that point, Clinton took a few moments to recount her husband's economic record.....snip~

Hillary Clinton slams Obama economy: 'Dream feels further and further out of reach' | WashingtonExaminer.com


Yeah Hillary tell it like it is.....for a change. :mrgreen:

The opinion piece in the Examiner mischaracterizes Clinton's speech. If one reads the transcript, Clinton actually praises President Obama for reviving economic growth (as would be expected, as she could ill-afford to do otherwise were she to seek the Democratic Party nomination). The relevant excerpts are:

It’s taken years of painstaking work and strong leadership from President Obama to get our economy growing again. But it is growing. And there are reasons to be optimistic about our future.

The full transcript can be found at: Keynote by the Honorable Hillary Rodham Clinton | NewAmerica.org
 
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