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U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
Yeah, let's see how much sense it makes when that assistance gets cut cold turkey (like some want) and there is ****ing anarchy in the streets because TENS OF MILLIONS of people are now starving, homeless & very, very upset about the government turning its back on them. Didn't think of that, did you? And it's not even an unforeseen consequence, it is the direct result of cutting it off cold turkey.

See, that's the problem with conservatives like you. You're incapable of thinking beyond the Fox News talking points to realize that you can't cut off assistance to 10,000,000+ people BEFORE the infrastructure for fillable jobs is put into place. If there were enough jobs to go around for everyone, there wouldn't be so many people on the government's dole. And that's the problem. All conservatives want to do is cut out government assistance and do nothing about the piss poor job field in this country.

Now, I realize I probably offended you with the above, but please, don't hand-wave it away with complaining about what I said - instead, actually address it.
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Wow, project much? Why don't you respond to the post and tell me why the Federal Govt. has a responsibility for state and local issues? Tell me why a one size fits all Federal Social programs work. All I see from you are liberal talking points that lack basic logic and common sense. Like far too many you believe a massive central govt, with a 3.8 TRILLION dollar budget is the answer to local and state social problems. Those massive central govt. results are ignored by people who think with their heart instead of their brain.

You didn't offend me at all because I learned a long time again when a political opponent is committing suicide with their comments, simply get out of the way and let them. I am waiting for you to address the points I made but doubt that will ever happen
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

jonny5 said:
You have evidence of higher profit margins? Take BP, for example, who recently had record profits. Their profit margin meanwhile has not moved anywhere but down, from an avg of 7% to an avg of 4-5%.

BP Profit Margin (Quarterly) (BP)
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The evidence is widely available.
S&P 500 Margins Return To All-Time High - Business Insider
High profit margins hint at pain to come - Mark Hulbert - MarketWatch
RIP Record Profit Margins | The Reformed Broker
When Will Corporate Profit Margins Contract? | PRAGMATIC CAPITALISM

That fact you took the time to search out BP which is suffering from industry specific issues and discount all the literature on record profit margins is pretty disconcerting :roll:
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

iliveonramen said:
The evidence is widely available.
S&P 500 Margins Return To All-Time High - Business Insider
High profit margins hint at pain to come - Mark Hulbert - MarketWatch
RIP Record Profit Margins | The Reformed Broker
When Will Corporate Profit Margins Contract? | PRAGMATIC CAPITALISM

That fact you took the time to search out BP which is suffering from industry specific issues and discount all the literature on record profit margins is pretty disconcerting :roll:
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Do you have any clue as to what you are promoting? Why is it such a problem for you to see companies making profits based upon market conditions and personal choices made by consumers? Is that the way you were raised that profits are bad, business is bad, and a big govt. that micromanages a private sector economy is good? you care about what others make and pay in taxes but not so much how your 3.8 trillion dollar Federal govt. runs of course unless it is being run by a Republican. Why is that?

There isn't a Socialist country in the world successful and it never was the intent of our Founders to have a massive central govt. Why all of a sudden with a 17.5 trillion dollar debt is a massive central govt. better than holding your state and local government accountable for results. You certainly don't hold the Federal Govt. responsible for results again unless it is a Republican Administration?

By the way, profit margins are not a good indication of how a company is doing, ROI and ROE are. Do you know what those profit margins cover in terms of investment?
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

iliveonramen said:
The evidence is widely available.
S&P 500 Margins Return To All-Time High - Business Insider
High profit margins hint at pain to come - Mark Hulbert - MarketWatch
RIP Record Profit Margins | The Reformed Broker
When Will Corporate Profit Margins Contract? | PRAGMATIC CAPITALISM

That fact you took the time to search out BP which is suffering from industry specific issues and discount all the literature on record profit margins is pretty disconcerting :roll:
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I took a widely criticized for profits company, to use as an example. But maybe youre right in the more general sense.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Do you have any clue as to what you are promoting? Why is it such a problem for you to see companies making profits based upon market conditions and personal choices made by consumers? Is that the way you were raised that profits are bad, business is bad, and a big govt. that micromanages a private sector economy is good? you care about what others make and pay in taxes but not so much how your 3.8 trillion dollar Federal govt. runs of course unless it is being run by a Republican. Why is that?
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This whole conversation was started by you claiming Obama was bad for business. Now...try and keep up...my whole argument was based on "if he's so bad for business why are they having record profits?". What's followed has been gibberish and obfuscation and now of course...the personal attack on me. Basically nothing discounting that companies are doing really well...

By the way, profit margins are not a good indication of how a company is doing, ROI and ROE are. Do you know what those profit margins cover in terms of investment?
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Actually profit margins are a fantastic way to gauge how a business is doing. It's revenue minus operating income...it's how profitable a company is.....a company with long term negative profit margins is a company no longer in business. It's pretty much how you measure the profitability of a company.

As for ROI...how do you even measure that?!? to determine how a company is doing in the short term!?????!???

If Proctor and Gamble spends X million on a new plant in 2012 are you saying they have a very low ROI based on that year? Are you compiling the long term..."return on investment" of that plant over 20 years to find out how smart they are with their money? I'm not convinced you have any idea what an ROI is beyond some basic definition. You seem to apply it to things you can't really apply it to. ROI is the long term return on an investment...because..investments are long term. To say that ROI is how you would judge a company over a 6 year term shows you have no idea what you're talking about!
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

iliveonramen;1063468761]This whole conversation was started by you claiming Obama was bad for business. Now...try and keep up...my whole argument was based on "if he's so bad for business why are they having record profits?". What's followed has been gibberish and obfuscation and now of course...the personal attack on me. Basically nothing discounting that companies are doing really well...
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Now try to focus, you confuse big business with small business and the fact that neither can print cash like the Govt. Businesses have to make money to stay in business any anything that increases costs hurts business. Obamanomics is an uncertainty to business and business doesn't like uncertainty because it cannot plan for the future not knowing what Obama is going to do next. They are current stockpiling cash at the big business level because operating expenses are low since they aren't hiring. It is the small businesses that have gone out of business because of the poor economy and Obamanomics that you want to ignore


Actually profit margins are a fantastic way to gauge how a business is doing. It's revenue minus operating income...it's how profitable a company is.....a company with long term negative profit margins is a company no longer in business. It's pretty much how you measure the profitability of a company.

As for ROI...how do you even measure that?!? to determine how a company is doing in the short term!?????!???

If Proctor and Gamble spends X million on a new plant in 2012 are you saying they have a very low ROI based on that year? Are you compiling the long term..."return on investment" of that plant over 20 years to find out how smart they are with their money? I'm not convinced you have any idea what an ROI is beyond some basic definition. You seem to apply it to things you can't really apply it to. ROI is the long term return on an investment...because..investments are long term. To say that ROI is how you would judge a company over a 6 year term shows you have no idea what you're talking about!
Click to expand...


Wrong, profit margins are a short term gauge on how to judge business performance, the real tool is ROI and ROE. Return on investment is taking the profit made and divided by the investment in that business. You will find very low ROI is a lot of businesses that you seem to not understand. Business isn't like just putting money into an account and earning simple interest, it is about actual risk taking and if you don't generate a profit you aren't getting a return on that investment.

ROI is how you judge any investment and it is short term and long term. Businesses don't last long without making a good return on their investment. You have shown no evidence that you have any clue how businesses operate
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

jonny5 said:
Well there you go. THATS why we cant balance the budget. Which means I guess YOU need to pay more taxes to pay for anything and everything you want the govt to do.
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I'm not saying things don't need to be cut, but (by all appearances) simply throwing a dart at a wall covered in agencies isn't the way to do it.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Wow, project much? Why don't you respond to the post and tell me why the Federal Govt. has a responsibility for state and local issues? Tell me why a one size fits all Federal Social programs work. All I see from you are liberal talking points that lack basic logic and common sense. Like far too many you believe a massive central govt, with a 3.8 TRILLION dollar budget is the answer to local and state social problems. Those massive central govt. results are ignored by people who think with their heart instead of their brain.

You didn't offend me at all because I learned a long time again when a political opponent is committing suicide with their comments, simply get out of the way and let them. I am waiting for you to address the points I made but doubt that will ever happen
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1) I already addressed why the need for the federal government to intervene exists. But, I'll do it again. Take my state, Michigan as an example, specifically with Detroit & other large cities like Saginaw. The amount of people hurting & disadvantaged in either city, particularly Detroit, exceeds anything the local government can handle by itself or even partnered with the state. Why? Because there are too many people & if they (local & state) went it alone there would become the obvious issue of, "What about the rest of the state?" The same applies for your state - imagine if cities like Houston, Dallas & San Antonio were to become like Detroit. Could the state of Texas handle that burden by itself?

2) And how am I projecting? If you think I am, then it means you believe that 10,000,000+ people's assistance turning off before they're back on their feet WOULDN'T lead to enormous problems. So, please, shed some light on why you think that.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango;1063469134]1) I already addressed why the need for the federal government to intervene exists. But, I'll do it again. Take my state, Michigan as an example, specifically with Detroit & other large cities like Saginaw. The amount of people hurting & disadvantaged in either city, particularly Detroit, exceeds anything the local government can handle by itself or even partnered with the state. Why? Because there are too many people & if they (local & state) went it alone there would become the obvious issue of, "What about the rest of the state?" The same applies for your state - imagine if cities like Houston, Dallas & San Antonio were to become like Detroit. Could the state of Texas handle that burden by itself?
Click to expand...

Yes, the state of TX can and will handle its problems by itself and there isn't an individual social problem in any state that cannot be handled by the state, local government, and citizens of that state. You tell me why the people of TX should fund a one size fits all Federal Program that doesn't solve any social problem, only prolongs it. The city of Detroit hasn't had a Republican Mayor in decades and created most of the problems itself. Now you want a bailout. Rewarding bad behavior will never change that behavior and that is what you propose.

2) And how am I projecting? If you think I am, then it means you believe that 10,000,000+ people's assistance turning off before they're back on their feet WOULDN'T lead to enormous problems. So, please, shed some light on why you think that.
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Again, you think with your heart instead of your brain. Life is about making choices, good or bad, and yes people make bad choices. For those people the state and local communities can and should handle the problem. We have a country of 312 million or so Americans with 50 independent sovereign states that you seem to be something the Federal bureaucrats in D.C. can handle. Throwing money at the problem only creates the incentive to do little to solve the problem. It doesn't take a 3.8 TRILLION dollar Federal Govt. to help those truly in need regardless of the liberal rhetoric.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
I'm not saying things don't need to be cut, but (by all appearances) simply throwing a dart at a wall covered in agencies isn't the way to do it.
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Thats not how I did it. THose are simply the most obvious ones. But even then you had an argument against cutting it. So what happens when I get to the less obvious ones. You tell me, name me something the govt does that you can live without.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

jonny5 said:
Thats not how I did it. THose are simply the most obvious ones. But even then you had an argument against cutting it. So what happens when I get to the less obvious ones. You tell me, name me something the govt does that you can live without.
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Looks to me like Jango is a big govt. liberal who got his leaning wrong. Seems Jango expects the massive central govt. to take money from the taxpayers and spend it on programs that he deems necessary and refuses to go after the citizens of Michigan for. This is what happens when you create an entitlement mentality and that means taking from someone else in other states to solve personal social problems in your own.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

jonny5 said:
Thats not how I did it. THose are simply the most obvious ones. But even then you had an argument against cutting it. So what happens when I get to the less obvious ones. You tell me, name me something the govt does that you can live without.
Click to expand...

Roger that.

How about tanks being built that politicians want but the military doesn't. Or every branch of the military having an intelligence outfit while the D.I.A. still exists. Or more-and-more federal agencies having SWAT teams of their own. Spending $500,000,000 on people fighting our enemies in the ME because after our enemies are dead or have fled the ****heads we dropped coin on will turn on us. Sinking $8,000,000,000 into Africa. Protecting Europe from Europe. Protecting Israel from Arabs. The War on Drugs. Military adventurism.

And I did not argue against them all, I just pointed out on some of them what would happen if it was removed. Why? Because it is easy to say "Cut it" without thinking of the consequences that would follow.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Looks to me like Jango is a big govt. liberal who got his leaning wrong. Seems Jango expects the massive central govt. to take money from the taxpayers and spend it on programs that he deems necessary and refuses to go after the citizens of Michigan for. This is what happens when you create an entitlement mentality and that means taking from someone else in other states to solve personal social problems in your own.
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:lol:

But it's okay to spend trillions of taxpayer dollars fighting unwinnable Wars trying to solve foreigner's problems or keeping people from using drugs?
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
:lol:

But it's okay to spend trillions of taxpayer dollars fighting unwinnable Wars trying to solve foreigner's problems or keeping people from using drugs?
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Whether or not you liked the war is irrelevant, Bush got Congressional Approval to do that and defense is the responsibility of the Federal Govt. It was a Democrat Senate that gave him authorization when they didn't have to even bring it up for a vote. You seem to have a very distorted view of the Constitution, suggest you read it.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Whether or not you liked the war is irrelevant, Bush got Congressional Approval to do that and defense is the responsibility of the Federal Govt. It was a Democrat Senate that gave him authorization when they didn't have to even bring it up for a vote. You seem to have a very distorted view of the Constitution, suggest you read it.
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Defense from what though, Saddam's crippled military and missiles that couldn't reach the U.S.? Afghanistan was justified because of 9/11. Iraq had 0 legitimate justification.

Government assistance has Congressional approval too, and to you that's wrong whereas spending trillions helping Iraqis (and Israel) is entirely justifiable. Where are your priorities because they're certainly not with your fellow citizens.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
Roger that.

How about tanks being built that politicians want but the military doesn't. Or every branch of the military having an intelligence outfit while the D.I.A. still exists. Or more-and-more federal agencies having SWAT teams of their own. Spending $500,000,000 on people fighting our enemies in the ME because after our enemies are dead or have fled the ****heads we dropped coin on will turn on us. Sinking $8,000,000,000 into Africa. Protecting Europe from Europe. Protecting Israel from Arabs. The War on Drugs. Military adventurism.

And I did not argue against them all, I just pointed out on some of them what would happen if it was removed. Why? Because it is easy to say "Cut it" without thinking of the consequences that would follow.
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But you thought long and hard about the effects of ending military intelligence, military adventurism or war on drugs or Israel before just saying 'cut it'? Furthermore you did argue against the things i listed

1) Disagree. Space is our future.
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Only now we're just arguing about arguing. Which means this is a pointless conversation. We have a fundemental difference in the role of govt. I think its to defend my life and freedom. You think its to explore space or deliver the mail, to provide social services in essence.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487]

Conservative said:
U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q | Fox Business

Congratulations, Liberals, you are getting what you want, A European Socialist economy dependent on a Federal Govt. run by liberals and with more people dependent on that govt. for existence. This is exactly what you get when you elect and re-elect a totally unqualified individual to the highest office in the land, High unemployment, high debt, low economic growth are the new normal in this country
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They're not "liberals" they're fascists....

Real liberals don't believe in big government, banning products, Obamacare, dictated economies and outcomes etc....

The "liberals" you speak of are authoritarian fascists, and calling them "liberal" degrades the value and meaning of the term "liberal."
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

J
ango;1063469522]Defense from what though, Saddam's crippled military and missiles that couldn't reach the U.S.? Afghanistan was justified because of 9/11. Iraq had 0 legitimate justification.
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Your opinion noted, the difference being that the Congress approved the war and did so across party lines including a report from the Democrat Senate Oversight committee who had the same access to information that Bush had but this is nothing more than typical diversion and ignorance of the Constitution. Provide for the Common Defense is spelled out and whether or not you think Iraq was in our common defense is irrelevant, Congress did in a non partisan way

Government assistance has Congressional approval too, and to you that's wrong whereas spending trillions helping Iraqis (and Israel) is entirely justifiable. Where are your priorities because they're certainly not with your fellow citizens.
Click to expand...

Only in the liberal world can a bureaucrat in D.C. help solve a social problem in your local community and the cost doesn't matter. You continue to ignore the reality that social problems are state and local issues since the citizens of the state bear those costs not the Federal Taxpayer making it a state issue not a Federal one. You have offered no valid reason for the Federal Govt. to provide funding for state and local social issues other than your opinion which come from your heart and not your brain.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
Defense from what though, Saddam's crippled military and missiles that couldn't reach the U.S.? Afghanistan was justified because of 9/11. Iraq had 0 legitimate justification.

Government assistance has Congressional approval too, and to you that's wrong whereas spending trillions helping Iraqis (and Israel) is entirely justifiable. Where are your priorities because they're certainly not with your fellow citizens.
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I never understood Iraq, however Saddam was a nut that continually violated human rights so I'm not bent.

IMO, should have bombed Iraq back to the stone age..... Also, since Iraq did in fact happen we should have stayed there. Of course Obama is an idiot playing harp strings to progressives so he didn't for his own image rather than the safety of the Iraqi people....
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

jonny5 said:
But you thought long and hard about the effects of ending military intelligence, military adventurism or war on drugs or Israel before just saying 'cut it'? Furthermore you did argue against the things i listed



Only now we're just arguing about arguing. Which means this is a pointless conversation. We have a fundemental difference in the role of govt. I think its to defend my life and freedom. You think its to explore space or deliver the mail, to provide social services in essence.
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1) Do you know what the D.I.A. is? It stands for Defense Intelligence Agency. It's DOD's version of the C.I.A. So having the D.I.A. & intelligence agencies from every branch is an expensive & unnecessary redundancy.

2) In an address to Congress almost 20 years ago Netanyahu said he wanted Israel to stand on its own power. That still isn't happening.

3) The government has no right to dictate to adults what they can & cannot do with their bodies.

4) Military adventurism conducted in the name other than protecting the actual homeland is wasted lives, resources & money.

5) So you don't think space exploration isn't important. When will it be?

6) I never said I didn't argue against them - I said I didn't argue against them all.

7) My suggestions for cuts were not a spur of the moment thing in this back-and-forth. I've talked about each one of them here or elsewhere online previously.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Mr.Nick said:
I never understood Iraq, however Saddam was a nut that continually violated human rights so I'm not bent.

IMO, should have bombed Iraq back to the stone age..... Also, since Iraq did in fact happen we should have stayed there. Of course Obama is an idiot playing harp strings to progressives so he didn't for his own image rather than the safety of the Iraqi people....
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The humanitarian argument, though, opens the door for War on every continent that has people.

And yes, I do agree with the "we should have stayed" even though I believe we should have never been there to begin with. Why? Because all of the effort made was flushed down the toilet.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
J

Your opinion noted, the difference being that the Congress approved the war and did so across party lines including a report from the Democrat Senate Oversight committee who had the same access to information that Bush had but this is nothing more than typical diversion and ignorance of the Constitution. Provide for the Common Defense is spelled out and whether or not you think Iraq was in our common defense is irrelevant, Congress did in a non partisan way

Only in the liberal world can a bureaucrat in D.C. help solve a social problem in your local community and the cost doesn't matter. You continue to ignore the reality that social problems are state and local issues since the citizens of the state bear those costs not the Federal Taxpayer making it a state issue not a Federal one. You have offered no valid reason for the Federal Govt. to provide funding for state and local social issues other than your opinion which come from your heart and not your brain.
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1) Who gives a flying **** what Congress thought in a non-partisan way? They're not infallible. They have a long history of epic ****-ups ranging from slavery, repression & genocide. The Iraq War was just another layer upon that bitter history.

2) Your denseness on the federal vs. state/local assistance is quite unbecoming. And you continue to ignore the reality of what Ive told you with appropriate examples, see: Detroit & Saginaw or the Big Three in your state.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
1) Who gives a flying **** what Congress thought in a non-partisan way? They're not infallible. They have a long history of epic ****-ups ranging from slavery, repression & genocide. The Iraq War was just another layer upon that bitter history.

2) Your denseness on the federal vs. state/local assistance is quite unbecoming. And you continue to ignore the reality of what Ive told you with appropriate examples, see: Detroit & Saginaw or the Big Three in your state.
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You have yet to offer nothing other than your personal opinion. It isn't the Federal Govt's role to take care of people in your local community as it was never set up to do that and has no business doing that. People closest to the situation are the ones. Interesting how the people of TX seem to handle their own problems and only when the Federal Govt. gets involved do things get screwed up and cost more than intended doing less than intended. You continue to promote bigger govt. in spite of the poor Federal Govt. results.

By the way, did you serve in Iraq? I had three family members that did and they have a different opinion of the war than those who don't and who simply buy what they are told.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
1) Do you know what the D.I.A. is? It stands for Defense Intelligence Agency. It's DOD's version of the C.I.A. So having the D.I.A. & intelligence agencies from every branch is an expensive & unnecessary redundancy.

2) In an address to Congress almost 20 years ago Netanyahu said he wanted Israel to stand on its own power. That still isn't happening.

3) The government has no right to dictate to adults what they can & cannot do with their bodies.

4) Military adventurism conducted in the name other than protecting the actual homeland is wasted lives, resources & money.

5) So you don't think space exploration isn't important. When will it be?

6) I never said I didn't argue against them - I said I didn't argue against them all.

7) My suggestions for cuts were not a spur of the moment thing in this back-and-forth. I've talked about each one of them here or elsewhere online previously.
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And yet you assumed mine were, and I hadnt.
 
Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
The humanitarian argument, though, opens the door for War on every continent that has people.

And yes, I do agree with the "we should have stayed" even though I believe we should have never been there to begin with. Why? Because all of the effort made was flushed down the toilet.
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I suppose you cant help the world but doing what is in your power is what matters.....

For instance not every person can feed the homeless in the US but you can donate to 2-3....

To sit back and do nothing about Iraq would be wrong. I don't agree with the way it was done but I'm certainly satisfied that Saadam got what he bargained for..... That was justice. However today - Iraq is in anarchy.

Obama shouldn't even be able to pretend to know what he is doing....
 
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