U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

Boo Radley · Jun 28, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Unlike you I understand the role of the Federal Govt. which is to defend this nation. It is the role of the state and local govt. to handle social issues. Rather simple concept and basic civics.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, . . . We've all heard the self-grandeur stuff before. But you need more here. Independent evidence.

Boo Radley · Jun 28, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
In your opinion, and in the arrogant liberal world liberal opinion is always right in spite of evidence to the contrary,

His evidence was good. Yours, not so much.

Conservative · Jun 28, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Boo Radley said:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, . . . We've all heard the self-grandeur stuff before. But you need more here. Independent evidence.

Basic Preamble to the Constitution, PROVIDE for the Common Defense and PROMOTE Domestic Welfare. Provide and promote are two distinctly different words with distinct meaning. Liberals like you always confuse the two.

Conservative · Jun 28, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Boo Radley said:
His evidence was good. Yours, not so much.

Well with your credibility I don't worry too much about your opinions as to who is right or wrong.

Boo Radley · Jun 28, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Basic Preamble to the Constitution, PROVIDE for the Common Defense and PROMOTE Domestic Welfare. Provide and promote are two distinctly different words with distinct meaning. Liberals like you always confuse the two.

Changing the argument again? Already know you lost the other one? Good.

Boo Radley · Jun 28, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Well with your credibility I don't worry too much about your opinions as to who is right or wrong.

:lamo:lamo:lamo

jonny5 · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
Lol because those who routinely call for a limited government pick & choose what to limit, sorta like how religious people pick & choose what tenants they'll live by & respect. When those two intersect, poor & disadvantaged people, ironically, get cast aside. But at the same time, they call for restricting a woman's right to make her own reproductive decisions. Or take natural disasters, you know, earthquakes/wild fires/mud slides/floods/tornadoes/hurricanes that completely destroy towns. I'm sure there are limited government spouting people that live in the affected area. Yet, "please help me government," comes out of their mouth. Essentially, the limited government crowd is against the other takers and not when they need something like help.

It's a bull**** dog & pony show, man.

Libertarians DONT pick and choose, thats my point. We always choose maximum liberty. And as this relates to the topic, there is simply no reason we cant cut a little spending from things we dont absoluetly need, so that we dont have to keep taxing and borrowing trillions, which is hurting the economy and will only get worse.

Harmful Effects of Large and Growing Debt
How long the nation could sustain such growth in federal debt is impossible to predict with any confidence. At some point, investors would begin to doubt the government’s willingness or ability to pay U.S. debt obligations, making it more difficult or more expensive for the government to borrow money. Moreover, even before that point was reached, the high and rising amount of debt that CBO projects under the extended baseline would have significant negative consequences for both the economy and the federal budget:

Increased borrowing by the federal government would eventually reduce private investment in productive capital, because the portion of total savings used to buy government securities would not be available to finance private investment. The result would be a smaller stock of capital and lower output and income in the long run than would otherwise be the case. Despite those reductions, however, the continued growth of productivity would make real (inflation-adjusted) output and income per person higher in the future than they are now.
Federal spending on interest payments would rise, thus requiring larger changes in tax and spending policies to achieve any chosen targets for budget deficits and debt.
The government would have less flexibility to use tax and spending policies to respond to unexpected challenges, such as economic downturns or wars.
The risk of a fiscal crisis—in which investors demanded very high interest rates to finance the government’s borrowing needs—would increase.

http://www.cbo.gov/publication/44521

iacardsfan · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

It is time that the US government stop trying to correct market fluctuations and the American people learn to live with what the market provides. Altering interest rates an falsely increasing the money in the market is not a long term fix to economic problems, it is the problem. The Obama administration, joined by the Bush administration have time after time been blind to this.

donsutherland1 · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

iacardsfan said:
Altering interest rates... The Obama administration, joined by the Bush administration have time after time been blind to this.

The Federal Reserve conducts monetary policy, which influences interest rates through open market operations, the Discount rate at which banks can borrow from the Fed, and unorthodox approaches e.g. Quantitative Easing (purchase of long-term Treasury and Mortgage-backed securities in the U.S.). The Presidents carry out fiscal policy, which generally is comprised of taxes and expenditures.

iacardsfan · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

donsutherland1 said:
The Federal Reserve conducts monetary policy, which influences interest rates through open market operations, the Discount rate at which banks can borrow from the Fed, and unorthodox approaches e.g. Quantitative Easing (purchase of long-term Treasury and Mortgage-backed securities in the U.S.). The Presidents carry out fiscal policy, which generally is comprised of taxes and expenditures.

I understand the difference between monetary and fiscal policy. It would be foolish to assume the President does not influence monetary policy. In addition, I was specifically talking about the Bush and Obama administrations in regards to increasing the money supply via stimulus packages.

DA60 · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

donsutherland1 said:
The Federal Reserve conducts monetary policy, which influences interest rates through open market operations, the Discount rate at which banks can borrow from the Fed, and unorthodox approaches e.g. Quantitative Easing (purchase of long-term Treasury and Mortgage-backed securities in the U.S.). The Presidents carry out fiscal policy, which generally is comprised of taxes and expenditures.

But the POTUS appoints the Chair and vice chair of the Fed. And he re-confirmed Bernanke.

Plus, to assume that when he appointed Bernanke and Yellen he did not make sure that they were going to 'play ball' when he asked them to (like to try to stimulate the economy just before an election) would be extremely naive, IMO.

He has, IMO, a huge influence on what the Fed does and thus has a huge influence on monetary policy.

Kal'Stang · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Moderator's Warning:

Let's cut the snarky remarks shall we? I really don't feel like infracting and thread banning people at the moment. But just because I don't feel like it doesn't mean I won't. So behave yourselves.

Jango · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

jonny5 said:
Libertarians DONT pick and choose, thats my point. We always choose maximum liberty. And as this relates to the topic, there is simply no reason we cant cut a little spending from things we dont absoluetly need, so that we dont have to keep taxing and borrowing trillions, which is hurting the economy and will only get worse.

The 2013 Long-Term Budget Outlook - CBO

And what is included in that "we don't absolutely need" category?

fmw · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

iacardsfan said:
It is time that the US government stop trying to correct market fluctuations and the American people learn to live with what the market provides. Altering interest rates an falsely increasing the money in the market is not a long term fix to economic problems, it is the problem. The Obama administration, joined by the Bush administration have time after time been blind to this.

I doubt they are blind to it. But doing the right thing is superceded by politicians' greed for money to spend to enhance their re-elections. We are the bad guys for letting them do it.

jonny5 · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
And what is included in that "we don't absolutely need" category?

Space Exploration
Post Office (yes it does get subsidies)
Amtrak
Education Dept
Corporate Welfare in many different forms
Income Support payments to anyone above poverty levels
Corporation for Public Broadcasting

Want more?

Khayembii Communique · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

DA60 said:
No, according to another Forbes article, you are wrong.

'3) Over 50% of the working population (120 million individuals) works in a small business

4) Small businesses have generated over 65% of the net new jobs since 1995'

16 Surprising Statistics About Small Businesses - Forbes

I think you completely missed the entire point of the article I posted, considering that this is in no way a valid response to the point made...

Conservative said:
Your opinion noted but obviously you have never started a business. Further your definition of big business? That isn't the engine that drives the economy, the small town businesses do that and those are the ones liberals are killing. You think big business pays minimum wage? If so you really are very naive.

We own eight companies. I go to all company board meetings on a quarterly basis and work closely with management on business matters. Our businesses are considered small businesses. Guess who our biggest customers are?

The Mark · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

jonny5 said:
Space Exploration
Post Office (yes it does get subsidies)
Amtrak
Education Dept
Corporate Welfare in many different forms
Income Support payments to anyone above poverty levels
Corporation for Public Broadcasting

Want more?

I'd say that we need an education department, but one that is better at it's job. If nothing else, to ensure state education departments meet some minimum standards. Sorry, pet peeve.
And personally, I consider space exploration an absolute need. Survival of the species and all that.

Jango · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

jonny5 said:
Space Exploration
Post Office (yes it does get subsidies)
Amtrak
Education Dept
Corporate Welfare in many different forms
Income Support payments to anyone above poverty levels
Corporation for Public Broadcasting

Want more?

1) Disagree. Space is our future.
2) Depends on what the alternative is to getting mail.
3) Eh, I foresee more disasters.
4) Education always gets targeted. I think instead of cutting it, it needs to be restructured.
5) I agree, but there would be consequences for consumers in the same vein as carbon taxes: companies would shift the financial burden to hiking up costs for their services & products which the consumer takes on the chin.
6) The government set poverty level is like Swiss cheese, man.
7) Like PBS?
8) Sure, if you want to.

Conservative · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
And what is included in that "we don't absolutely need" category?

We don't need a massive central govt. trying to implement a one size fits all minimum wage and welfare programs in 50 independent sovereign states with different costs of living. Wonder why this is so hard for you to understand?

Conservative · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Khayembii Communique said:
I think you completely missed the entire point of the article I posted, considering that this is in no way a valid response to the point made...

We own eight companies. I go to all company board meetings on a quarterly basis and work closely with management on business matters. Our businesses are considered small businesses. Guess who our biggest customers are?

Then you ought to understand that it is the small businesses in this country that drive the economy and Obamanomics hurts those people the most

Jango · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
We don't need a massive central govt. trying to implement a one size fits all minimum wage and welfare programs in 50 independent sovereign states with different costs of living. Wonder why this is so hard for you to understand?

Perhaps because I disagree? It's not the 1770's if you haven't noticed, and the burden some wish to exclusively retain to states is not feasible, practical or conducive to proper governing.

Khayembii Communique · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Then you ought to understand that it is the small businesses in this country that drive the economy and Obamanomics hurts those people the most

So then I'm guessing you can't guess who our biggest customers are. I thought I was making it obvious for you...

Conservative · Jun 29, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
Perhaps because I disagree? It's not the 1770's if you haven't noticed, and the burden some wish to exclusively retain to states is not feasible, practical or conducive to proper governing.

You seem to be the one living in the 1770's when we had 13 colonies, not 50 states with different taxes, different cost of living, and different problems. You want a bureaucrat in D.C. to solve your local problems for you when all that bureaucrat has done is create a 17.5 trillion dollar debt and more dependence on the govt. Doesn't make a lot of sense to thinking people.

Jango · Jun 30, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
You seem to be the one living in the 1770's when we had 13 colonies, not 50 states with different taxes, different cost of living, and different problems. You want a bureaucrat in D.C. to solve your local problems for you when all that bureaucrat has done is create a 17.5 trillion dollar debt and more dependence on the govt. Doesn't make a lot of sense to thinking people.

Yeah, let's see how much sense it makes when that assistance gets cut cold turkey (like some want) and there is ****ing anarchy in the streets because TENS OF MILLIONS of people are now starving, homeless & very, very upset about the government turning its back on them. Didn't think of that, did you? And it's not even an unforeseen consequence, it is the direct result of cutting it off cold turkey.

See, that's the problem with conservatives like you. You're incapable of thinking beyond the Fox News talking points to realize that you can't cut off assistance to 10,000,000+ people BEFORE the infrastructure for fillable jobs is put into place. If there were enough jobs to go around for everyone, there wouldn't be so many people on the government's dole. And that's the problem. All conservatives want to do is cut out government assistance and do nothing about the piss poor job field in this country.

Now, I realize I probably offended you with the above, but please, don't hand-wave it away with complaining about what I said - instead, actually address it.

jonny5 · Jun 30, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jango said:
1) Disagree. Space is our future.
2) Depends on what the alternative is to getting mail.
3) Eh, I foresee more disasters.
4) Education always gets targeted. I think instead of cutting it, it needs to be restructured.
5) I agree, but there would be consequences for consumers in the same vein as carbon taxes: companies would shift the financial burden to hiking up costs for their services & products which the consumer takes on the chin.
6) The government set poverty level is like Swiss cheese, man.
7) Like PBS?
8) Sure, if you want to.

Well there you go. THATS why we cant balance the budget. Which means I guess YOU need to pay more taxes to pay for anything and everything you want the govt to do.

U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

Sporadic insanity normal.