U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

Anthony60 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Montecresto said:
That's what partisans do. Just like you glossing over the fact that Reagan tripled the ND borrowing more money than any president before him. Now I'll criticise the Obama administration. His action in Libya as well as his ongoing drone program is unethical as well as a violation of IL. He has done absolutely nothing to fix the economy that Bush broke. Now you man up and criticise the the GOP or are you just another right wing partisan hack?

Man up and criticize the GOP? LOL! What, for your "above it all" approval? Anyone that does not adhere to the principles of Constitution has my criticism. That's 100% of the Democrats and about 90% of the Republicans.

You know why we can gloss over Reagan's spending? Did you take a look at what he accomplished? A booming economy and good bye Soviet Union. Not quite the same as today, eh? Not much of a payoff (at least for us) from all the $trillions that Obama has buried us with.

Oh, and you need to brush up on the CRA if you think Bush broke the economy. His mistake was too much spending (though a mere pittance compared to Obama) and the TARP bailout.

Demon of Light · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

mbig said:
The OP/FOX article continues:

"..Data such as employment, manufacturing and services sectors point to a Sharp Acceleration in growth Early in the Second quarter. However, the pace of expansion could fall short of expectations, which range as high as a 3.6% rate.

Economists estimate severe weather could have slashed as much as 1.5% points from GDP growth in the first quarter."..."

Interesting how the article indicates only half of the decline can be accounted for by weather. What people are not contemplating for the current quarter is the effect of pent-up demand. The weather would have also had an effect in that respect and it means a significant amount of economic activity that was going to occur was instead pushed into the second quarter. When you do that it distorts the data to make it look more cheery than it is in reality since they play havoc with seasonal adjustments and annualization. A massive increase in manufacturing and services does not inherently indicate an increase in general real demand and could even be masking a continuing decline. Worse yet, the big upticks may not have made it into the current month. The result could very well be a worse-than-expected decrease for June since these are month-over-month figures.

Strucky · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Mustachio said:
Where do you live? I'm from Minnesota, where we had the worst winter ever. Most snow and most freezing days in my lifetime, and there was only one other winter in the last 4 decades that compared - it was in the early '80s. So do I believe that the winter had an effect on the economy? Of course I do - I saw it for myself. Everybody in this state just stayed at home, that will obviously have a detrimental effect on the economy. And I know that what happened here happened in other states as well.

You are basing your conclusions despite the facts, not on the facts. "Wealth redistribution?" Seriously? What are you even talking about?

The winter of 2010 was much worse,not as cold.....But the blizzard that took out the Metrodome roof was much worse than anything we got this last winter lol

Montecresto · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Anthony60 said:
Man up and criticize the GOP? LOL! What, for your "above it all" approval? Anyone that does not adhere to the principles of Constitution has my criticism. That's 100% of the Democrats and about 90% of the Republicans.

You know why we can gloss over Reagan's spending? Did you take a look at what he accomplished? A booming economy and good bye Soviet Union. Not quite the same as today, eh? Not much of a payoff (at least for us) from all the $trillions that Obama has buried us with.

Oh, and you need to brush up on the CRA if you think Bush broke the economy. His mistake was too much spending (though a mere pittance compared to Obama) and the TARP bailout.

Bus doubled the ND and Obama is on course to do it again. Both parties are burying us! That's the point, I can go with 90/100 that's still basically all of them. Time for change we can really believe in.

And you conveniently ignore the FACT that Reagan repented of his suffocating debt!!

Montecresto · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Only people who ignore history and actual data echo your comments. You don't get it as don't most people like you. when you have 2.8 trillion in debt on a 5.3 trillion dollar economy that debt is insignificant. You love to use the term tripling the debt ignoring the raw numbers and the benefits generated from that debt. Doubt seriously that would be a problem today if Obama created 17 million jobs, you think? What is it about personal responsibility and the private sector that creates such resentment? Could it be that you cannot compete?

You too conveniently ignored that Reagan himself repented of his staggering debt contribution. But I'm not surprised.

Conservative · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Visbek;1063450077]I have to say, this is the most scrambled thing you've said so far.

You claimed that "debts prevent people from spending," and I showed how this is not actually the case. A mortgage is a debt, and treating it as an investment is actually a bit of a mistake, and a way of thinking which exacerbated the recent real estate bubble. (In short, if that's how you think about it, then it's like taking out a loan to invest in the stock market.) A mortgage is debt, plain and simple, and it's only a problem if you can't make your payments.

No I didn't, I said that debt service has to be paid and you cannot do that without a job. Mortgage is a debt on an asset that you speculated would increase in value.. That value increase is an increase in net worth. Nice attempt at diversion

Now, I do agree that non-mortgage debt can influence spending habits -- but again, it's not because "you've got debt," it's based on your ability to pay off those debts.

It is all about the ability to service that debt and when you cannot print money like the Govt. does and cannot meet your debt service you have a serious problem and will lose your biggest asset. How big does the debt have to get before it bothers people like you? Obviously exceeding 100% of GDP isn't the number

I am glad to hear, though, that you do finally accept that bad weather can depress GDP because consumers are less likely to go out and buy stuff.

Amazing, isn't it that this is the only year in history with bad weather. Show me another winter quarter with that bad of a GDP number?

Errm.... Federal deficits (and surpluses) are based on the discrepancies between revenues and expenditures. It doesn't matter if appropriations are handled via an omnibus bill or a collection of appropriations bills, what matters is the amounts spent and received during the Federal government's fiscal year.

Yep and every year we have had a deficit except in the liberal world where you can take from SS and Medicare, leave an IOU, and claim a budget surplus. Try that in your own finances.

The US was still spending on military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan well into Obama's term, and winding those wars down has helped reduce deficits. It is highly unlikely that anyone in the office of President could have ended it any sooner.

Yes, we had expenditures signed by Obama for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and Obama expanded the Afghanistan War knowing that people like you would blame Bush for the deficit. What Obama did was turn victory into defeat as is normal for liberals. It doesn't matter a 3.9 trillion dollar budget will not lower the deficit. Again, why do we need a 3.9 trillion dollar Federal Govt. and 50 state governments? You want all money to go to D.C. and have them send you what they think you need?

Conservative · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Continued reply

I also find it rather amusing that you attribute no responsibility to Bush for the consequences of his decision to invade Iraq, but problems in Iraq after the US left are wholly the responsibility of Obama. That's rather selective of you.

I find it not amusing but sad that you don't understand that the cost of the Iraq War was funded yearly and is part of the 10.6 trillion dollar debt handed to Obama. It is very selective listening and reading on your part not to understand the Status of Forces Agreement and why we now lost the war in Iraq. How much of the 6.8 trillion debt Obama has amassed came from the wars? You cannot seem to grasp that deficits are yearly and debt is cumulative. Obama's budgets did not balance and Obama signed the 2009-10-11-12 budgets with trillion dollar deficits

I already did. Cutting taxes is not calculated as an "expense," nor did I say anything of the sort. If Bush hadn't cut taxes, then revenues would have been substantially higher than what we actually saw. It's not like Goldman Sachs was going to give out smaller bonuses because of changes to the estate tax, or the $500 check Bush mailed to taxpayers....

So now it is the estate taxes that created the debt? Wow, you are all over the place and out of your league. What part of the income taxes increasing income tax revenue do you not understand? Better talk to the Treasury Dept because they show record revenue from income taxes in 2007

Egads.

Well stated, exactly my thoughts about your posts

No matter how you slice it, Bush created a new entitlement (Medicare Part D), which will increase expenditures for decades to come. He also did it in such a way to increase costs to the taxpayer, because the law ruled out the ability of the government to negotiate drug costs with the pharmaceuticals.

I am not, in any way, saying that "war spending isn't reflected in the deficit." It IS reflected in the deficit. It's that Bush 43's administration intentionally kept it out of the official budget figures.

IT DOESN'T MATTER IF IT IS ON BUDGET OR OFF BUDGET, IT IS PART OF THE YEARLY DEFICIT!!! Wow, you liberals are something else. Did you bother to see what the Democrats proposed for Medicare Part D? Of course not because it doesn't matter that the reality is almost triple what the Republicans proposed. You believe the govt. negotiates good deals? Where is the incentive to do so?

The Obama administration spent $130 billion in 2009 on the wars, and another $160 in 2010; Afghanistan was another $90 billion in 2011. Even if you think those wars were the right thing to do, the simple fact is that Obama inherited those conflicts, and their expenditures. It's unlikely he could have ended them any earlier.

The simple fact is the war ended officially with the Status of Forces Agreement signed by Bush in 2008 with Iraq and Afghanistan is still ongoing and we are losing there now. Unbelievable how poorly informed liberals are and simply buy what they are told. Remove the entire cost of both Afghanistan and Iraq from 2009 to the Present and we still have trillion dollar deficits. Claims to the contrary are total ignorance

Re-read my posts, I've been addressing as many of your questions as I possibly can.

Basic question, why do we need a 3.9 trillion dollar Federal Govt?????

To continue: Cutting taxes is clearly not a means to reduce government spending. This "Club for Growth" approach has completely backfired, because it is far, far easier to just borrow more money than to cut spending. Let's look at the 2004 budget, not including war spending:

Social Security = 21.4% of the budget
Medicare = 11.7%
Military = 20%
Interest = 6.7%

Anyone who tries to cut any of these budgets is basically begging to be flayed alive. So, 60% of the 2004 budget was basically untouchable.

Now there you go again, please tell me why SS and Medicare are on budget and even considered? those should be off budget and in that Al Gore lock box. Why aren't they?

What about the rest? Almost everyone will say "the government spends too much," but what about the actual programs? It turns out people actually DON'T want anything cut, except for foreign aid -- which is less than 1% of the federal budget.

There in lies the problem, political correctness and buying votes vs doing what is necessary and right. Personal responsibility is a lost art today

It's not that I "expect to benefit." It's that everyone has a responsibility to contribute to the nation. In turn you have these weird things known as "representation" and "elected officials" and "legal protections" and all sorts of stuff. You also have the power to influence tax rates, and how your taxes are spent.

We should also note, AGAIN, that tax rates have been falling steadily since the Reagan years, and even with Obama's very small tax increase are close to historic lows. I swear, there's no satisfying some people. :mrgreen:

Everyone isn't contributing, 50% of income earning families do not pay any Federal Income taxes. Aren't they part of everyone? Tax rates are irrelevant, effective rates are all that matters.

Conservative · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Montecresto said:
You too conveniently ignored that Reagan himself repented of his staggering debt contribution. But I'm not surprised.

You conveniently ignored what that debt generated

Montecresto · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
You conveniently ignored what that debt generated

You can't even admit failure when you've been shown that the man who tripled our national debt and strapped it to the backs of American citizens for a generation or more repented of it. Your stubborn, ill grant you that.

Conservative · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Montecresto said:
You can't even admit failure when you've been shown that the man who tripled our national debt and strapped it to the backs of American citizens for a generation or more repented of it. Your stubborn, ill grant you that.

I am sorry, I don't call creating 17 million jobs, having 7% GDP growth that actually doubled GDP, having a 60% increase in Income tax revenue, creating a peace dividend a failure, why would you? You do realize that Reagan debt was 50% of GDP?

Montecresto · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
I am sorry, I don't call creating 17 million jobs, having 7% GDP growth that actually doubled GDP, having a 60% increase in Income tax revenue, creating a peace dividend a failure, why would you? You do realize that Reagan debt was 50% of GDP?

REAGAN, the man himself repented for tripling our national debt and so strapping the nation, and the failure was in turning the US from the biggest lending nation into the biggest debtor nation, no good trade off. So sorry that's difficult to acknowledge.

Conservative · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Montecresto said:
REAGAN, the man himself repented for tripling our national debt and so strapping the nation, and the failure was in turning the US from the biggest lending nation into the biggest debtor nation, no good trade off. So sorry that's difficult to acknowledge.

Of course he did as would I but not the results of his Administration. The debt created was manageable and 50% of GDP and very little of it came from Reagan who even tried to stop it by massive use of the veto. He needed to turn the economy around and did so but had to compromise with Tip O'Neil who was like a kid in the candy story spending all that money that was coming in, not Reagan. How old were you during the Reagan years, I was in my early 40's

Jack Hays · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Montecresto said:
REAGAN, the man himself repented for tripling our national debt and so strapping the nation, and the failure was in turning the US from the biggest lending nation into the biggest debtor nation, no good trade off. So sorry that's difficult to acknowledge.

And yet the debt accumulated by RWR is just a tiny fraction of today's total. And of course there's that Cold War victory and foundation for a generation of prosperity that we got for our money. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with deficit financing if it's required for a great national purpose.

eace

Visbek · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
No I didn't, I said that debt service has to be paid and you cannot do that without a job.

Sure. And government debts can't be paid without revenues. The US really doesn't have a problem meeting its payments, and does so without printing money. Remember, people have been throwing so much money into Treasuries that they're still at exceedingly low rates.

How big does the debt have to get before it bothers people like you? Obviously exceeding 100% of GDP isn't the number

You're right, it isn't. I do admit I don't have an exact figure, but I've already pointed out how a debt of 100% of GDP poses no problems for the US economy.

Amazing, isn't it that this is the only year in history with bad weather. Show me another winter quarter with that bad of a GDP number?

It's usually part of the seasonal adjustments. However, when the weather is exceptionally bad, it has an impact on GDP. A couple of quick examples.

UK cited it in 2010: Shock as UK economy shrank by 0.5% at end of 2010 | Business | theguardian.com
Germany too: Harsh Winter Halts Growth: German Budget Deficit Hits 3.3 Percent of GDP - SPIEGEL ONLINE
US in 2011: Reed Construction Data - US Economic growth slows abruptly in winter quarter

And remember, this isn't a government explanation. It's coming from analysts who don't draw a government paycheck.

Yes, we had expenditures signed by Obama for the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and Obama expanded the Afghanistan War knowing that people like you would blame Bush for the deficit.

*shrug* I don't really care who Obama's press secretary blames. Despite your repeated assertions, I'm nowhere near as partisan as you seem to think. E.g. I have no problems crediting Bush and his appointees when they did the right thing, e.g. bail out the banks and start TARP quickly.

And nothing I've said here discusses whether war spending was or was not the right thing to do. It's simply a fact that Obama was dealt a bad hand, much in the same way Bush 43 inherited Greenspan and Clinton-era refusals to regulate derivatives.

It doesn't matter a 3.9 trillion dollar budget will not lower the deficit.

The 2014 deficit was around 2.8% of GDP, and the 2015 deficit is projected to be around 3.1% of GDP. It's really not that bad.

Again, why do we need a 3.9 trillion dollar Federal Govt. and 50 state governments?

Go look it up. It's all public. As I indicated, most of it is military, Social Security and Medicare. And people really aren't that interested in cutting anything else.

You want all money to go to D.C. and have them send you what they think you need?

I never said anything of the sort. Please stop inaccurately characterizing my views, kthx.

Montecresto · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Of course he did as would I but not the results of his Administration. The debt created was manageable and 50% of GDP and very little of it came from Reagan who even tried to stop it by massive use of the veto. He needed to turn the economy around and did so but had to compromise with Tip O'Neil who was like a kid in the candy story spending all that money that was coming in, not Reagan. How old were you during the Reagan years, I was in my early 40's

Oh, that's the problem.

Montecresto · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Reaganomics- led to the U.S. moving from the world's largest international creditor to the world's largest debtor nation.[19

And yet we still have Reagan apologists.

Jack Hays · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Montecresto said:
Reaganomics- led to the U.S. moving from the world's largest international creditor to the world's largest debtor nation.[19

And yet we still have Reagan apologists.

Because the designations are unimportant.

Conservative · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Visbek;1063450465]Sure. And government debts can't be paid without revenues. The US really doesn't have a problem meeting its payments, and does so without printing money. Remember, people have been throwing so much money into Treasuries that they're still at exceedingly low rates.

Do you have any idea what happens to the value of money if you continue to print it? and the U.S. does have problems meeting its payments and does so by printing money and by borrowing money.

You're right, it isn't. I do admit I don't have an exact figure, but I've already pointed out how a debt of 100% of GDP poses no problems for the US economy.

Sorry, but that is your opinion, any idea how much of the budget is debt service? couldn't that money be put to better use? Tell me why SS and Medicare are on budget?

It's usually part of the seasonal adjustments. However, when the weather is exceptionally bad, it has an impact on GDP. A couple of quick examples.

UK cited it in 2010: Shock as UK economy shrank by 0.5% at end of 2010 | Business | theguardian.com
Germany too: Harsh Winter Halts Growth: German Budget Deficit Hits 3.3 Percent of GDP - SPIEGEL ONLINE
US in 2011: Reed Construction Data - US Economic growth slows abruptly in winter quarter

And remember, this isn't a government explanation. It's coming from analysts who don't draw a government paycheck.

What bothers me is the extent this Administration is going to blame the weather as if we haven't had bad weather in the past. All they are doing is diverting from their own failures and lack of understanding as to how the private sector works

And nothing I've said here discusses whether war spending was or was not the right thing to do. It's simply a fact that Obama was dealt a bad hand, much in the same way Bush 43 inherited Greenspan and Clinton-era refusals to regulate derivatives.

Obama ran for the job and claimed he had the answers, too many bought the rhetoric and ignored the resume. I knew he didn't have the experience and it gives me no great satisfaction to say I told you so.

The 2014 deficit was around 2.8% of GDP, and the 2015 deficit is projected to be around 3.1% of GDP. It's really not that bad.

It is the debt that is the problem and as long as there is a deficit the debt is going to grow

Go look it up. It's all public. As I indicated, most of it is military, Social Security and Medicare. And people really aren't that interested in cutting anything else.

I know it is all public, the question remains, why is SS and Medicare on budget?

I never said anything of the sort. Please stop inaccurately characterizing my views, kthx.[/QUOTE]

Conservative · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Montecresto said:
Reaganomics- led to the U.S. moving from the world's largest international creditor to the world's largest debtor nation.[19

And yet we still have Reagan apologists.

Debt that is manageable isn't the problem but that isn't what we have now. What are we getting for the 6.8 trillion dollars Obama has added to the debt?

You seem to have a problem with 2.6 trillion in debt on a 5.3 trillion dollar economy but not 17.6 trillion on a 16 trillion dollar economy. Why?

imagep · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

jmotivator said:
The only thing that has been keeping the economy "growing" is the insane influx of QE dollars into the market.

If that's the case, then the federal reserve is doing a pretty good job.

The stock market growth has not been an indicator of a growing economy, it is the bellwether of coming hyper-inflation the likes of which we haven't seen since the Carter administration.

How many years of hyper-inflation predictions have to be made, without coming true, will you inflation guys admit that printing money doesn't create inflation? Just how many times do you have to be wrong before you will admit to being wrong.

By the way, inflation was much worse under the first couple of years of Reagan - you try to pretend that it ocurred under Carter to protect who you worship.

Jack Hays · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

imagep said:
If that's the case, then the federal reserve is doing a pretty good job.

By the way, inflation was much worse under the first couple of years of Reagan - you try to pretend that it ocurred under Carter to protect who you worship.

Really? How so, if RWR took office on 20 Jan 1981?

eace

Jan 1, 1984 4.19%
Jan 1, 1983 3.71%
Jan 1, 1982 8.39%
Jan 1, 1981 11.83%
Jan 1, 1980 13.91%
Jan 1, 1979 9.28%

US Inflation Rate by Year

Visbek · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
I find it not amusing but sad that you don't understand that the cost of the Iraq War was funded yearly and is part of the 10.6 trillion dollar debt handed to Obama.

I never said anything of the sort, and the figures I use do include war spending. I made a tangential comment about how Bush kept the war off-budget to point out the shenanigans they pulled, and you're blowing it out of proportion.

But just for your edification... The Trillion-Dollar War - Reason.com

How much of the 6.8 trillion debt Obama has amassed came from the wars?

Well, the total cost of the wars is estimated at $4 trillion to $6 trillion. As far as I know, Obama's cut is around $370 billion, it could be more.

Speaking of debt: When Bush 43 came into office, the debt went from $5.7 trillion to $10.7 trillion. As a percentage of GDP, it went from 56% to 85%. And as already noted, Obama was in no small part saddled with Bush policies -- most critically, the Bush tax cuts. And yet, for some reason you don't seem terribly outraged about it. Hmmm

You cannot seem to grasp that deficits are yearly and debt is cumulative. Obama's budgets did not balance and Obama signed the 2009-10-11-12 budgets with trillion dollar deficits

Of course I understand the difference between debts and deficits. Don't be silly.

So now it is the estate taxes that created the debt? Wow, you are all over the place and out of your league.

Guess again. Part of the Bush tax cuts included cutting estate taxes. And once more with feeling....

You believe the govt. negotiates good deals? Where is the incentive to do so?

The incentive is basic economics. One of the reasons why Medicare keeps costs down is because the federal government negotiates with hospitals and doctors. Those groups don't always like it, because they get low rates and have little negotiating room, but it works -- not just in the US, but also abroad.

The simple fact is the war ended officially with the Status of Forces Agreement signed by Bush in 2008 with Iraq and Afghanistan is still ongoing and we are losing there now. Unbelievable how poorly informed liberals are....

I'm sorry, but your equivocation on this point doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter when any agreements were signed. We're talking about government expenditures, and the simple fact is that the US was still conducting military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and still had (and has) to pay for them.

Remove the entire cost of both Afghanistan and Iraq from 2009 to the Present and we still have trillion dollar deficits....

Sure. Remove the effects of the Bush tax cuts, and we don't have trillion dollar deficits.

Now there you go again, please tell me why SS and Medicare are on budget and even considered? those should be off budget and in that Al Gore lock box. Why aren't they?

Why do YOU include it? The $3.9 trillion spending figure for 2015 that you keep citing includes $902 billion for Social Security, and $532 billion for Medicare.

Visbek · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Do you have any idea what happens to the value of money if you continue to print it?

Of course I do. And like I said, the US does NOT have any issues raising funds to pay what it owes.

the U.S. does have problems meeting its payments and does so by printing money and by borrowing money.

No, they really don't. If they did, we'd be seeing inflation in the double digits or more.

Sorry, but that is your opinion, any idea how much of the budget is debt service? couldn't that money be put to better use?

FY2015 is projected at $251 billion. Considering that it gets us access to the funds we need to run the government, and that interest rates are ridiculously low, it's not a bad deal.

What bothers me is the extent this Administration is going to blame the weather as if we haven't had bad weather in the past. All they are doing is diverting from their own failures and lack of understanding as to how the private sector works

The administration isn't the one "blaming the weather." It's independent economic analysts.

Conservative · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Jack Hays said:
Really? How so, if RWR took office on 20 Jan 1981?eace

Jan 1, 1984 4.19%
Jan 1, 1983 3.71%
Jan 1, 1982 8.39%
Jan 1, 1981 11.83%
Jan 1, 1980 13.91%
Jan 1, 1979 9.28%

US Inflation Rate by Year

You do realize that liberals never admit when they are wrong, they just ignore the response

Conservative · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Visbek;1063450648]I never said anything of the sort, and the figures I use do include war spending. I made a tangential comment about how Bush kept the war off-budget to point out the shenanigans they pulled, and you're blowing it out of proportion.

Kid, you have a problem, whether or not it is on budget or off budget doesn't matter, it is part of the deficit and the debt for the year incurred. You really need to stop reading leftwing rags and get the facts. The Treasury shows the deficit and debt by year, you really ought to familiarize yourself with the official books of the United States

Well, the total cost of the wars is estimated at $4 trillion to $6 trillion. As far as I know, Obama's cut is around $370 billion, it could be more.

Show me the official Treasury numbers that support your claim. This is nothing more than liberal BS

Speaking of debt: When Bush 43 came into office, the debt went from $5.7 trillion to $10.7 trillion. As a percentage of GDP, it went from 56% to 85%. And as already noted, Obama was in no small part saddled with Bush policies -- most critically, the Bush tax cuts. And yet, for some reason you don't seem terribly outraged about it. Hmmm

Cite your source, debt of 10.6 trillion dollars on January 21, 2001 on a 14.5 trillion dollar economy is 73% and that isn't the 100+ % it is now. This is getting embarrassing for you. You really seem to have a problem with getting official numbers. I suggest the Treasury Dept rather than leftwing rags. You would be better served. Tax cuts grew govt. revenue because they created the economic atmosphere that grew over 9 million jobs from 2001-2007, What is it about liberalism that creates this kind of loyalty? Pay attention to my sources and you will learn something

These will help you

Current Report: Combined Statement of Receipts, Outlays, and Balances of the United States Government (Combined Statement): Publications & Guidance: Bureau of the Fiscal Service

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

Of course I understand the difference between debts and deficits. Don't be silly.

Apparently not since you don't understand that the debt includes off budget items

Guess again. Part of the Bush tax cuts included cutting estate taxes. And once more with feeling....

So what? what did the govt. do to deserve the benefits of someone else's investment success? You seem to not understand risk taking either.

Please stop posting any charts that show tax cuts having any relationship with deficits since tax cuts increased govt. revenue because they increased jobs. Show me that we would have had the same job creation without those tax cuts?

The incentive is basic economics. One of the reasons why Medicare keeps costs down is because the federal government negotiates with hospitals and doctors. Those groups don't always like it, because they get low rates and have little negotiating room, but it works -- not just in the US, but also abroad.

Oh, good Lord, you believe the govt. keeps costs down? This is the same entity that generated a 17.5 trillion dollar debt. You really don't realize how foolish you sound and have no understanding of the data you post.

I'm sorry, but your equivocation on this point doesn't make sense. It doesn't matter when any agreements were signed. We're talking about government expenditures, and the simple fact is that the US was still conducting military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, and still had (and has) to pay for them.

Most done within the Defense department budget which again you don't understand. I can only assume that you are in school and have no outside experience at all so you buy what you are told and do no research to verify the rhetoric. You really ought to worry about your credibility

Sure. Remove the effects of the Bush tax cuts, and we don't have trillion dollar deficits.

LOL Obama had a Democrat Congress that could have eliminated those tax cuts if he really believed they caused the deficits or even cared about them. The reality is it is a waste of time dealing with people like you who don't understand that tax cuts generated the atmosphere for economic activity and growth thus creating more revenue.

Why do YOU include it? The $3.9 trillion spending figure for 2015 that you keep citing includes $902 billion for Social Security, and $532 billion for Medicare.

Still waiting for any justification for having Medicare and SS on budget? Do you know what on budget means? How about a unified budget? Do you think your SS and Medicare taxes paid should go into the general fund to be spent?

U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

Anthony60

Demon of Light

Bohemian Revolutionary

Strucky

.

Montecresto

Montecresto

Conservative

Conservative

Conservative

Montecresto

Conservative

Montecresto

Conservative

Jack Hays

Traveler

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

Montecresto

Montecresto

Jack Hays

Traveler

Conservative

Conservative

imagep

Villiage Idiot

Jack Hays

Traveler

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

Conservative

Conservative