U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

Slyfox696 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

RedAkston said:
2.9% reduction in growth is now acceleration? I suppose it is just in the wrong direction.

Way to only look at one quarter. You're smarter than to pass that argument off, I don't know why you tried. Why not look at every quarter since Q3 of 2009?

And if you don't think it is killing job growth, I have no idea what planet you are currently living on. So many employers where I live are not able to hire because of the increased costs that come from Obamacare.

Anecdotal evidence versus statistics. Which to believe...

The ACA, regulations and the economic policies of this administration are absolutely killing our economy.

Except statistics don't support that.

To deny this is to do so from either ignorance of the world around them or from intellectual dishonesty. So what is it with you specifically?

Aww, your false dilemma fallacy was cute, but rather transparent.

Why do you ignore the fact the last 12 months has seen some of the strongest job growth in the last decade? Why do you ignore that, since Q3 2009, we've only had two negative GDP quarters? Why do you ignore most non-political analysts blame the harsh winter for Q1?

Why do you ignore the facts?

DA60 said:
Nothing.

Well, thank you for your contribution of nothing then.

DA60 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Slyfox696 said:
Way to only look at one quarter. You're smarter than to pass that argument off, I don't know why you tried. Why not look at every quarter since Q3 of 2009?

Anecdotal evidence versus statistics. Which to believe...

Except statistics don't support that.

Aww, your false dilemma fallacy was cute, but rather transparent.

Why do you ignore the fact the last 12 months has seen some of the strongest job growth in the last decade? Why do you ignore that, since Q3 2009, we've only had two negative GDP quarters? Why do you ignore most non-political analysts blame the harsh winter for Q1?

Why do you ignore the facts?
Well, thank you for your contribution of nothing then.

You are welcome.

Do you deny that 319,000 jobs in the 25-54 age range have been lost since March?

Yes or no, please?

And do you deny that this is the most importnt age range of the economy?

Yes or no, please?

Maenad · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

RedAkston said:
As many of us not left of center have been saying, Obamacare is killing jobs and job growth. If it is not repealed, our country's better days will be behind us and not in our future. We are now in an out-of-control downward spiral economically. It will be entertaining at least to see the administration, the pundits and the apologists try to spin their way out of this one.

Obama is an abysmal failure and his policies are now coming to fruition. Can't blame this on Bush can they.

Obama is the product of a father who knew nothing about government but despotism and a mother who saw to it that he was raised with a socialist mentality and educated in a communist school. His father was a muslim, and in the muslim world that makes Obama a muslim. He has clearly shown himself to be a terrorist sympathizer, and has violated American policy of not negotiating with terrorists. How could the narrow majority of Americans who elected him have been so ignorant of this man's background?

Maenad · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

tres borrachos said:
You are correct, Red. They can't blame this on Bush, but that certainly won't stop them.

Obama will say something profound on this issue, like "I inherited this mess and the Republicans have done nothing but obstructed all of my efforts to help Main Street", and the Obamabots will bob their collective heads in agreement, say what a wonderful smart man he is, and that this is all because of Bush, Cheney, Halliburton, and the Party of No.

Sadly the well informed are helpless to disagree. The way Obama talks Bush is still president.

Slyfox696 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

DA60 said:
You are welcome.

Do you deny that 319,000 jobs in the 25-54 age range have been lost since March?

You are correct.

Do you deny that (using your source) in the last 12 months, roughly 500,000 jobs have been created in the 25-54 range, even after excluding the 319,000?

Yes or no, please?

And do you deny that this is the most importnt age range of the economy?

Yes or no, please?

And would you agree 12 months is a much better measure than 3 months?

Yes or no, please?

Visbek · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
What exactly do you believe the 842 billion dollar stimulus did for the economy, a short term drug boost?

Before I answer that: Are you saying that in your opinion, the $842 billion stimulus -- 1/3 of which was tax breaks -- did, in fact, boost GDP for 4 years?

You don't think Obamacare, wealth redistribution, threats of higher taxes impact a private sector economy?

I believe the ACA in the short term hasn't had a big effect on the private sector, and in the long term will be beneficial.

I know, for a fact, that most of the job losses over the past several years have been in the public sector. The private sector has added jobs.

I believe that "threats of higher taxes" aren't going to have a big impact, especially when the reality of those tax increases are quite small.

When you come off a recession like we did in June 2009 this economic growth is a disaster as is the job creation and yet the best you can do is continue to nod your head in approval of Obamanomcs?

I think you're blowing one quarter's data utterly out of proportion.

Job growth is slowly recovering. Not where we'd want it to be, of course, but it's on the right track. One bad quarter is not going to result in massive layoffs, especially since other indicators are positive.

Obviously, no one likes a negative quarter. But it certainly isn't proof that Obama has locked the US into a permanent downward spiral.

DA60 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Slyfox696 said:
You are correct.

Do you deny that (using your source) in the last 12 months, roughly 500,000 jobs have been created in the 25-54 range, even after excluding the 319,000?

Yes or no, please?

And do you deny that this is the most importnt age range of the economy?

Yes or no, please?

And would you agree 12 months is a much better measure than 3 months?

Yes or no, please?

No, no and yes.

Yes just under 500,000 25-54 age range jobs were created in the last 12 months and yes, the 25-54 age range is (imo) by FAR the most important age range.
But, no, I think when measuring the present health of the economy you measure recent trends; not previous trends.
Who cares what the economy did 9 or 12 months ago? What matters is how healthy is it now?
If someone loses their job, do they say 'well, at least I was working 12 months ago?'
Doubtful.

And your 487,000 25-54 range job growth over the past 12 months is lousy (IMO) considering the 25-54 age range makes up over 65% of the entire work force.
So, roughly 40,000 new jobs per month over the past year in a sector that is 2/3'rd's of the entire work force and probably much higher then that in terms of % of all wages.

Maybe you think that is good...not me.

Anthony60 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

This was all predicted from day 1 by anyone that had the slightest clue on how the economy works. Others predicted that we would be on the path to utopia. After all these years, they're still stuck on stu**d.

Slyfox696 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

DA60 said:
No, no and yes.

Yes just under 500,000 25-54 age range jobs were created in the last 12 months and yes, the 25-54 age range is (imo) by FAR the most important age range.

Then I'm glad we agree on the 500,000 job growth. And we partially agree on what's an important range, as I think the most important measure is simply having jobs, regardless of range.

But, no, I think when measuring the present health of the economy you measure recent trends; not previous trends.

Then we disagree on what's "recent". 12 months is recent, in my opinion, because it encompasses a full rotation of seasons and it's ESPECIALLY important in the conversation you interjected into regarding Obamacare.

Who cares what the economy did 9 or 12 months ago? What matters is how healthy is it now?

Then you'll be somewhat happy that in the last 3 months, we've added 702,000 jobs, right?

Maybe you think that is good...not me.

I think adding jobs is good. We've added 702,000 of them in the last three months (excluding revisions). And since the conversation between me and Red was about Obamacare's affect on jobs, I think it's been shown we're having good job growth with Obamacare.

DA60 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Slyfox696 said:
Then I'm glad we agree on the 500,000 job growth. And we partially agree on what's an important range, as I think the most important measure is simply having jobs, regardless of range.

Then we disagree on what's "recent". 12 months is recent, in my opinion, because it encompasses a full rotation of seasons and it's ESPECIALLY important in the conversation you interjected into regarding Obamacare.

Then you'll be somewhat happy that in the last 3 months, we've added 702,000 jobs, right?

I think adding jobs is good. We've added 702,000 of them in the last three months (excluding revisions). And since the conversation between me and Red was about Obamacare's affect on jobs, I think it's been shown we're having good job growth with Obamacare.

I could care less how many jobs were created if there was a huge net loss in the 25-54 age range during that period.
IMO, it is impossible to have solid, long term growth while the 25-54 age range is losing jobs.

So you think the last three months (when a total of 200,000 jobs in the 25-54 age range were lost) were good ones?

Yes or no, please?

DA60 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Of course, the DOW is up...probably because Wall Street knows that lousy GDP numbers means more stimuli from the Fed.

The Fed economy - up is down and down is up.

Carleen · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q | Fox Business

Congratulations, Liberals, you are getting what you want, A European Socialist economy dependent on a Federal Govt. run by liberals and with more people dependent on that govt. for existence. This is exactly what you get when you elect and re-elect a totally unqualified individual to the highest office in the land, High unemployment, high debt, low economic growth are the new normal in this country

Thank you!

Visbek · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Amazing, isn't it, the first rough winter in history?

Of course it isn't. It also isn't the first winter that's had an effect on GDP growth.

Oh, and is this what failure looks like?

Obviously wealth redistribution, threats of higher taxes, attacks on the coal industry, increased regulations, Obamacare had nothing to do with it. You people do live in a dream world.

"Wealth redistribution?" You mean the dramatic increase in economic inequality, the highest in the US since the 1920s?

What policies do you genuinely interpret as massively redistributing wealth? Obama barely squeaked in one small tax hike on the super-rich. Obama didn't change the criteria for TANF or AFDC. Is extending unemployment what you're referring to?

"Attacks" on the coal industry? You mean, promoting natural gas? And proposing policies that won't take an effect for several years, that's going to cause a drop in GDP in a single quarter?

Now, I might agree that the ACA had a small effect -- in that again, health care spending went down. As in, people are spending less on health care, including insurance. Some of that might be linked to the ACA. However, that's not going to result in massive waves of layoffs.

Slyfox696 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

DA60 said:
I could care less how many jobs were created if there was a huge net loss in the 25-54 age range during that period.

Just some friendly advice, you probably mean you could not care less.

IMO, it is impossible to have solid, long term growth while the 25-54 age range is losing jobs.

So you think the last three months (when a total of 200,000 jobs in the 25-54 age range were lost) were good ones?

Yes or no, please?

I think the trend is a positive one and I think when nearly 3 quarter of a million jobs are created in three months, it's a good thing.

Visbek · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Anthony60 said:
This was all predicted from day 1 by anyone that had the slightest clue on how the economy works.

Oh? Who 16 quarters of growth, and 2 negative quarters, since the end of the recession?

Or are you really just seizing on any economic bad news, and using that to claim the entire economy went down the tubes 3 months ago?

Others predicted that we would be on the path to utopia.

No one predicted "utopia." But thanks for the straw man.

DA60 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Slyfox696 said:
Just some friendly advice, you probably mean you could not care less.

Actually, I meant the way I typed it...but I understand your point.

I think the trend is a positive one and I think when nearly 3 quarter of a million jobs are created in three months, it's a good thing.

Fair enough.

I don't agree, but you are entitled to your opinion.

Btw, I appreciate you answering my questions, using statistics and not getting snarky. Better then many around here.

Later.

Anthony60 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Visbek said:
Oh? Who 16 quarters of growth, and 2 negative quarters, since the end of the recession?

Or are you really just seizing on any economic bad news, and using that to claim the entire economy went down the tubes 3 months ago?

Gee, only 2 negative quarters. Fantastic! Are you really trying to claim that Obama's economy (among other things) hasn't been a disaster? Oh, please.

Mustachio · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
Amazing, isn't it, the first rough winter in history? You people are absolutely amazing. Isn't it interesting that all those discouraged workers over the years apparently faced those miserable winters prior to 2014? Obviously wealth redistribution, threats of higher taxes, attacks on the coal industry, increased regulations, Obamacare had nothing to do with it. You people do live in a dream world.

Where do you live? I'm from Minnesota, where we had the worst winter ever. Most snow and most freezing days in my lifetime, and there was only one other winter in the last 4 decades that compared - it was in the early '80s. So do I believe that the winter had an effect on the economy? Of course I do - I saw it for myself. Everybody in this state just stayed at home, that will obviously have a detrimental effect on the economy. And I know that what happened here happened in other states as well.

You are basing your conclusions despite the facts, not on the facts. "Wealth redistribution?" Seriously? What are you even talking about?

ARTHUR 1976 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Conservative said:
U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q | Fox Business

Congratulations, Liberals, you are getting what you want, A European Socialist economy dependent on a Federal Govt. run by liberals and with more people dependent on that govt. for existence. This is exactly what you get when you elect and re-elect a totally unqualified individual to the highest office in the land, High unemployment, high debt, low economic growth are the new normal in this country

Gee i guess you forgot that the house is dominated by Republicons, who shut down the Government last year creating 17 billion of new debt, not to mention trying to repeal the Aca for 50+ times, real productive huh???, guess that's why their approval ratings are 13%, and Obama is in the 40's%
Dependent on GOVERNMENT, LOL, guess that's what you would call the Republicons who are "dependent on Gov, to start all of their failed wars, that drag on forever, wanna talk about corporate welfare????, naaahhh keep on smoking on that Republicon pole..

AlbqOwl · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

fmw said:
I don't think so. As far as I can see, we are still in the great recession. We've had a lousy economy since late 2007.

Mild recessions have always been a fact of a free market economy--something like a spike in oil prices due to a major storm or even a minor skirmish in the Middle East can create a brief economic downturn, and we were having a very minor economic downturn at the end of 2007. However the economy was growing strongly the first half of 2008. The first round of defaults were beginning to show up though and this created the beginning of another economic downturn in late July and August that behaved as just another cyclical mild recession until the bubble burst. There are few sinking feelings as grim as watching your retirement nest egg dissolve in hours as the stock market plunged 1000 points. It largely recovered with the announcement of TARP and, had the Obama administration had a fraction of the Bush administration savvy on how to manage an economy, we would have slowly and surely climbed out of the recession and would have been back to normal by the end of Obama's first term.

But Obama's cluelessness, the business unfriendly environment he created, the attempt to spend us back into prosperity, and the unconscionable uncertainties he forced into the economy via Obamacare, tax and threaten the rich, regulate normal energy processes out of business, etc. etc. etc. has prolonged and continued to deepen what should have been a deep but normal recession. And Harry Reid, Obama's chief lapdog, hasn't helped by refusing to work with the House in provisions that could have helped. The House has passed some 20 or so jobs bills now that were never allowed out of committee for debate and a vote in the Senate.

AlbqOwl · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

RedAkston said:
As many of us not left of center have been saying, Obamacare is killing jobs and job growth. If it is not repealed, our country's better days will be behind us and not in our future. We are now in an out-of-control downward spiral economically. It will be entertaining at least to see the administration, the pundits and the apologists try to spin their way out of this one.

Obama is an abysmal failure and his policies are now coming to fruition. Can't blame this on Bush can they.

Alas, not only can they blame this on Bush still, but they DO blame this on Bush. Obama has never ever accepted any responsibility for the crappy economy and to this day alludes to it as something he inherited. We have been hearing pretty much this same speech now for six years:

[video]http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=youtube+Obama+blame+bush&FORM=VIRE2#view=detail&mid=56C7D7DB020CB5B541F556C7D7DB020CB5B541F5[/video]

ARTHUR 1976 · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

RedAkston said:
As many of us not left of center have been saying, Obamacare is killing jobs and job growth. If it is not repealed, our country's better days will be behind us and not in our future. We are now in an out-of-control downward spiral economically. It will be entertaining at least to see the administration, the pundits and the apologists try to spin their way out of this one.

Obama is an abysmal failure and his policies are now coming to fruition. Can't blame this on Bush can they.

Why are you garbage RebubliKKKons so obsessed with Obama, he's only 1 man, LOL, newsflash genius, Obama's approval ratings are around 44%-46%, the toxic GOP congress is at 13%!!

Obama's been a success, due to fact he's kept your redneck POS party out of power for the last 8 years, and he's PAYBACK FOR that ugly looking drunk inbred Bush....

There's a reason the Dems, own 2/3 of Government because most Americans, at least the yanks up north hate your toxic , redneck cesspool party...

Can't wait until 2016, when Hillary beats your sorry ass party down, LOL....

pbrauer · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

AlbqOwl said:
Mild recessions have always been a fact of a free market economy--something like a spike in oil prices due to a major storm or even a minor skirmish in the Middle East can create a brief economic downturn, and we were having a very minor economic downturn at the end of 2007. However the economy was growing strongly the first half of 2008. The first round of defaults were beginning to show up though and this created the beginning of another economic downturn in late July and August that behaved as just another cyclical mild recession until the bubble burst. There are few sinking feelings as grim as watching your retirement nest egg dissolve in hours as the stock market plunged 1000 points. It largely recovered with the announcement of TARP and, had the Obama administration had a fraction of the Bush administration savvy on how to manage an economy, we would have slowly and surely climbed out of the recession and would have been back to normal by the end of Obama's first term.

But Obama's cluelessness, the business unfriendly environment he created, the attempt to spend us back into prosperity, and the unconscionable uncertainties he forced into the economy via Obamacare, tax and threaten the rich, regulate normal energy processes out of business, etc. etc. etc. has prolonged and continued to deepen what should have been a deep but normal recession. And Harry Reid, Obama's chief lapdog, hasn't helped by refusing to work with the House in provisions that could have helped. The House has passed some 20 or so jobs bills now that were never allowed out of committee for debate and a vote in the Senate.

You've got to be kidding, Bush's ability manage an economy? It's been a long time since I have something so outrageous. Do you know what the economy looked like when Obama became president, the economy lost 800,000 jobs that month of January, 2009. The economy was headed straight for the toilet. As for TARP, the credit market was frozen, it was nearly impossible to get a loan.

Visbek · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Anthony60 said:
Gee, only 2 negative quarters. Fantastic! Are you really trying to claim that Obama's economy (among other things) hasn't been a disaster?

Perfect? Certainly not. But is it a disaster? No. Not by any stretch of the imagination.

A true disaster would have resulted if Bush 43 hadn't followed Paulson's and Bernanke's recommendations, and just let the economy implode in late 2007. A true disaster would have resulted if Obama hadn't used TARP funds to keep the auto makers afloat. A true disaster would look like the Great Depression, with 30% U3 unemployment and deflationary spirals.

Meanwhile, many of the things right-wing partisans complain about have been going on for decades. For example, wages have been flat since the 1970s, even as productivity has gone through the roof. Is that any single President's fault? Nope.

How about people exiting the labor force? Well, it turns out that's actually a long-term trend, dating back decades. Men have been gradually exiting the workforce since the 1960s; and labor force participation has mainly been growing because women were entering the workforce. On the whole, participation started dropping in 2001 -- long before Obama took office. No single President could possibly be responsible for these trends.

How about health insurance premiums? That's another long-term trend. Or perhaps you can explain how Obama was responsible for health insurance premiums outpace inflation in the decade before he took office? :mrgreen:

Conservative · Jun 25, 2014

Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

Visbek;1063448038]Before I answer that: Are you saying that in your opinion, the $842 billion stimulus -- 1/3 of which was tax breaks -- did, in fact, boost GDP for 4 years?

The claims of tax cuts is bogus because they were conditional unless the 500 dollar rebate is considered a tax cut. The stimulus money was dumped into the economy to create shovel ready jobs and the shovels never arrived in most cases. You don't seem to understand the components of GDP or you would understand that the money definitely would create a short term increase in GDP which is what it did. After a worse recession than this one, Reagan had over 7% GDP growth and created millions of jobs. we are still below the employment at the start of the recession now and Obama's attempt to redistribute wealth is causing employers not to hire nor will they until Obama is fired.

I believe the ACA in the short term hasn't had a big effect on the private sector, and in the long term will be beneficial.

Public sector jobs ha

That is your opinion but mine is quite different. Obama has made a mess of the healthcare industry

I know, for a fact, that most of the job losses over the past several years have been in the public sector. The private sector has added jobs.

Public sector employment has been reduced at the state and local levels because states cannot print money, Federal employment has risen. It is the liberal goal to create a massive central govt and Obama is doing that as shown my his policies and proposal for a 3.9 trillion dollar budget

I believe that "threats of higher taxes" aren't going to have a big impact, especially when the reality of those tax increases are quite small.

Ever run a business? Any idea what it costs to employ an individual? I have and you are absolutely wrong.

I think you're blowing one quarter's data utterly out of proportion.

Job growth is slowly recovering. Not where we'd want it to be, of course, but it's on the right track. One bad quarter is not going to result in massive layoffs, especially since other indicators are positive.

It isn't one quarter, the U-6 rate is a disaster as more and more people have stopped looking for work and are discouraged. In addition the number of part time employees has increased with now over 7.3 million long term part time workers who want full time jobs. That isn't an improving economy. the part time employment is what is making the job creation look better than it is.

Obviously, no one likes a negative quarter. But it certainly isn't proof that Obama has locked the US into a permanent downward spiral.

Obama is incompetent and lacked the experience in the private sector to understand how it works. You don't seem to understand either. Learn the components of GDP and get back to me

U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

Slyfox696

DA60

Maenad

Sayonara!

Maenad

Sayonara!

Slyfox696

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

DA60

Anthony60

Slyfox696

DA60

DA60

Carleen

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

Slyfox696

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

DA60

Anthony60

Mustachio

ARTHUR 1976

AlbqOwl

AlbqOwl

ARTHUR 1976

pbrauer

Visbek

Stuck In The Circle

Conservative