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Thread: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    Real GDP did not double and the GDP gains under Reagan were not atypical.



    Moreover, under Clinton, job gains were 22 million and percent GDP gains were essentially the same.



    My family isn't the benchmark. But data is data:

    I find it quite interesting that liberals like you believe people in the 80's lived and spent in 2005 dollars. Wish I had 2005 dollars in the 80's but didn't nor did any of your family. Further people provide me with the BLS data that shows 22 million jobs created during the Clinton term? You seem to want to ignore the affect the GOP Congress had on Clinton economic policies. You ought to educate yourself.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Real GDP was at 6.49 trillion at the end of 1980 and 8.60 trillion at the end of 1988 so I have no idea where you're getting this "GDP Doubled" idea from. The other items you bring up aren't even relevant because this isn't a "Reagan vs. Obama" discussion but rather the point was made that the 81 recession is not comparable to the 2007 crash which you can't apparently understand?
    So tell me did people of the 80's have 2005 dollars? That seems to be what you want to contend. Wish I had those dollars in the 80's. The GDP when Reagan took office was 2.6 trillion dollars and when he left it was 5.2 trillion, that is double. BEA.gov could be a good friend of yours rather than leftwing websites.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So tell me did people of the 80's have 2005 dollars? That seems to be what you want to contend. Wish I had those dollars in the 80's. The GDP when Reagan took office was 2.6 trillion dollars and when he left it was 5.2 trillion, that is double. BEA.gov could be a good friend of yours rather than leftwing websites.
    So you don't want to adjust them for inflation, is what you're apparently saying? Or are chained dollars a liberal conspiracy?
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    The only thing holding this economy up are the red states with pro growth economic policies as well as capitalism.
    Like Kantsus?
    Oh, and don't just post isolated examples such as resource rich Texas or the oil rich Dakotas
    Show me an overall trend where red states do better
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Your opinion noted but obviously you have no concept as to the components of GDP with consumer spending making up 2/3 of the GDP. Tell me that putting more money into the hands of the consumers because of bigger take home paychecks due to tax cuts doesn't benefit the consumers? Rates don't matter, what people pay does
    First, I have every "concept" of the components of GDP. It's really not a difficult equation.

    Second, "putting more money into the hands of the consumers" doesn't guarantee that they will spend that money, and therefore, boost aggregate demand and GDP. Consumers can save that money too. There is ample research on all of this and the conclusion is that tax-cuts are inefficient stimulus. Tax cuts do work as stimulus. It's just that government spending will work even better, since the government can decide to spend that money entirely, thereby creating more effective stimulus. Hence, the multiplier effect is higher with government spending than tax-cuts.
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

    Quote Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post
    I don't know anybody stating that higher taxes are a solution to fixing the economy. Higher taxes are a solution to other problems, however.

    It should go without saying that lower taxes also do not fix economies, unless the taxes are at rates that are confiscatory, and therefore hamper the incentive to earn. That hasn't existed for a long time. The current rates are not confiscatory -- nor were the rates since the 1970s. Only in Ayn Rand novels do people stop working and investing because they have to pay taxes. Nobody gives up to $1,000,000 in income because they have to pay less than $380,000 in taxes.
    Well, given that many multinational corporations which were based in the US are entertaining 'inversions' to take themselves off shore, seems that we have an answer if their US tax rates are confiscatory or not. Yes?
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I find it quite interesting that liberals like you believe people in the 80's lived and spent in 2005 dollars. Wish I had 2005 dollars in the 80's but didn't nor did any of your family. Further people provide me with the BLS data that shows 22 million jobs created during the Clinton term? You seem to want to ignore the affect the GOP Congress had on Clinton economic policies. You ought to educate yourself.
    It's clear that you don't understand what "real" and "chained" mean. They are a method to adjust money to take into account inflation. As an example, a worker in 1935 might have earned $20 per week. In 1990, a worker might have earned $190 per week. Does that mean the 1990 worker is 9.5 times richer than the 1935 worker? No. Adjusted for inflation they earned the same amount.

    Adjusting for inflation is a standard in both finance and economics. Your ignorance of this is breathtaking.
    Last edited by MTAtech; 07-30-14 at 12:37 PM.
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    So tell me did people of the 80's have 2005 dollars? That seems to be what you want to contend. Wish I had those dollars in the 80's. The GDP when Reagan took office was 2.6 trillion dollars and when he left it was 5.2 trillion, that is double. BEA.gov could be a good friend of yours rather than leftwing websites.
    And the ND was tripled, which is fine if you don't mind Obama doubling it I suppose. Our economy crashed the last year or so of the Bush administration, we'd be where we are now no matter who is in the WH.
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

    Quote Originally Posted by eohrnberger View Post
    Well, given that many multinational corporations which were based in the US are entertaining 'inversions' to take themselves off shore, seems that we have an answer if their US tax rates are confiscatory or not. Yes?
    Inversion has no effect on GDP. All sales are still in the U.S. What inversion does is make it "look" like the earnings are overseas. It is also not proof that corporate rates are confiscatory, since reducing rates to zero, regardless of the tax-rate, will always be preferred.
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    So you don't want to adjust them for inflation, is what you're apparently saying? Or are chained dollars a liberal conspiracy?
    People living during the times paid with the dollars they received during the times so to say that the 5.2 trillion dollar economy at the end of the Reagan term equates to 8.6 trillion now does what? Reagan doubled the economy with the dollar value during the time. Obama is generating numbers today with the dollars of today. What exactly is your point? What purpose does it serve claiming the 5.2 trillion dollar GDP which grew from 2.6 trillion isn't a success? Tell me that winning 49 out of 50 states in 1984 doesn't matter?

    You don't seem to understand leadership at all or what it takes to drive a Private sector economy. You and Obama are two of a kind.

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