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Thread: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q[W:487:681]

  1. #531
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    1) I get my information about the Iraq War same as you: people I know who were there, media, think tanks, the government & documentation they allow to see the light of day in the public arena.

    2) As I said to another member here in regards to the Status of Forces agreement, what was supposed to be done once Maliki & now Karzai said, "**** you America, I don't want you or your troops' help, get the **** out of my country." We don't have Jedis who can wave a hand in their face and say, "You want us here." So what was supposed to be done? Assassinate Maliki? Replace him with someone we could control? If we did that we'd be ****ting all over one of our biggest rationales: liberating the people of Iraq & creating a democracy. So, tell me, how would you negotiate with Maliki after he like Karzai absolutely refused to agree to give our boys immunity from Iraqi law - how do you get him to change his mind?

    3) Of course there are charities in Detroit. However, private sponsored philanthropy only goes so far.

    4) A $3,800,000,000,000 budget is of course excessive. The budget and our debt alongside it have been growing even before I was born. 9/11 intensified our spending as did the 2008 financial crisis both of which were outside the control of private citizens who of course, took the brunt of the calamities created by other people. It would be one of the worst mistakes this country's government has ever made if they cut off assistance to 10,000,000+ people who still need it because they've yet to recover from the devastation brought upon them. I don't see how anyone in good conscience could suggest such a thing for their fellow citizen.

    I am sure that is the liberal version of what they want to believe happened but the reality is that Obama in his arrogant best never supported the Iraq War and did not negotiate in good faith with anyone including the so called "good" war. You continue to believe what you are told and never do any research to verify the rhetoric. why is that?

    Private sponsored philanthropy will go as far as the govt. will allow it and the penalties that Obama and liberals have put on charitable giving as well as the threat of higher taxes on individual taxpayers hurts charities and puts more pressure on the govt. to fill in the gap, a liberal dream.

    I am still waiting for you to prove that your state with among the highest taxes in the nation cannot take care of those truly in need. Again stop thinking with your heart and use the brain.

  2. #532
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Yes, Saddam being found in a spider hole and being hung to death was fitting for a demon of his caliber. But there are many like him walking around free & alive today, like the fat ass tyrant from North Korea or the "Supreme Leader" of Iran or the dictatorial monarchies around the world including allies. Should we invade them all too? If no, why not? People are treated terribly there too. Or is there a specific body count # that must be reached before our intervention can be launched? 60,000 dead? If yes, we're invading Mexico to wipe out the cartels whom we armed. 100,000 dead? Then we're invading Syria in which we'll start killing the rebels we've spent hundreds of millions on.

    The humanitarian angle in geopolitics is just lip service, man, because U.S. foreign policy has ignored countless humanitarian catastrophes over the years.
    Maybe...

  3. #533
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    I am sure that is the liberal version of what they want to believe happened but the reality is that Obama in his arrogant best never supported the Iraq War and did not negotiate in good faith with anyone including the so called "good" war. You continue to believe what you are told and never do any research to verify the rhetoric. why is that?

    Private sponsored philanthropy will go as far as the govt. will allow it and the penalties that Obama and liberals have put on charitable giving as well as the threat of higher taxes on individual taxpayers hurts charities and puts more pressure on the govt. to fill in the gap, a liberal dream.

    I am still waiting for you to prove that your state with among the highest taxes in the nation cannot take care of those truly in need. Again stop thinking with your heart and use the brain.
    Okay, since you're apparently in the know more than most, what happened with SOF agreement?

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Nick View Post
    Maybe...
    Sorry, but there is no maybe about it, it's what has happened.

  5. #535
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Okay, since you're apparently in the know more than most, what happened with SOF agreement?
    A date was set for the U.S. Withdrawal and terms were to be established for a force to remain. Obama failed to negotiate with Iraq and wanted to appease his base by taking credit for the withdrawal, a withdrawal negotiated by the Bush Administration. Obama is an arrogant ass, unqualified for the office and we are seeing the results today.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    A date was set for the U.S. Withdrawal and terms were to be established for a force to remain. Obama failed to negotiate with Iraq and wanted to appease his base by taking credit for the withdrawal, a withdrawal negotiated by the Bush Administration. Obama is an arrogant ass, unqualified for the office and we are seeing the results today.
    While President Obama can be blamed for lots of things, the withdrawal from Iraq cannot be laid at his doorstep, which is unfortunate for conservatives like yourself:

    “When the Americans asked for immunity, the Iraqi side answered that it was not possible,” al-Maliki told reporters in Baghdad. “The discussions over the number of trainers and the place of training stopped. Now that the issue of immunity was decided and that no immunity to be given, the withdrawal has started.”
    Iraq prime minister: Immunity issue scuttled U.S. troop deal - Washington Times



    So now we're back to my original point before this side-tracking was done: what was President Obama supposed to do? Kill Maliki & install a new leader to the U.S.'s liking? Or bend over backwards to cater to & convince some moron that if we left a power vacuum would happen, which is considerably beneath the stature of a President of the United States: begging & pleading with some two-bit piece of ****, of which, if ever discovered, the lunatic fringe right-wing would be ****ING HOWLING about it.

    So again, what EXACTLY would YOU have done as POTUS if your counterpart in Iraq said no to immunity. Vague & non-specific answers like, "I'd negotiate," will be received as a non-answer and therefore another dodge.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    Why wouldn't I, particularly when it comes to space. The longevity of our species depends on getting off this planet hence why I asked you when will it become important to you.
    You wouldnt because this is a debate forum and you should respect that other people have a different viewpoints, not imply they are shallow when they express them. You asked what I thought was unnecessary, I answered and you called me shallow. If you want to have a debate about my answers, im up for that, but not if you are going to insult me along the way.

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    ...what was President Obama supposed to do? Kill Maliki & install a new leader to the U.S.'s liking?
    IMO, given Maliki's having established himself as a sectarian, not national leader, the U.S. should have backed Ayad Allawi after Allawi's bloc gained the largest number of seats in the 2010 elections.

    Allawi reaches out after Iraq election win

    Unfortunately, the U.S. has a tendency to become fixated on personalities rather than interests. A similar dynamic holds true with respect to Karzai in Afghanistan. This fixation spans multiple Administrations.

    In any case, policy makers can't get tied up looking backward to the past. They need to focus on today and tomorrow. The caliphate that has been declared poses a threat to U.S. regional interests and strategic allies. It also has balance of power implications. Among the questions the U.S. urgently needs to answer include:

    1. What will the U.S. do to maintain a balance of power that precludes Iran from exploiting instability in Iraq to enhance its influence/move closer to regional hegemony and safeguards the security of regional U.S. allies?

    2. Will the U.S. seek to substantially eradicate ISIS? If not, will it seek to contain the caliphate to mitigate the risk that it could further destabilize a historically volatile region?

    3. If Grand Ayatollah Sistani's efforts to seek an inclusive Iraqi government fail--and it is incredible that Iraq's parliament could not achieve a quorum when the country faces an existential threat--will the U.S. back a Kurdish state (likely to be stable and relatively prosperous) and the creation of a state or states by the majority Shia and Sunni tribes not affiliated with ISIS? IMO, the U.S. should weigh in and express support for Sistani's efforts.

    4. Would the U.S. be willing to negotiate a status of forces agreement with any successor states that emerge should Iraq not be salvageable (e.g., Sistani's efforts fail)?

    5. Will the U.S. refrain from carrying out policies that are contradictory e.g., terminate sending weapons to anti-Assad forces in Syria even as those elements more closely serve ISIS's interests (not all are aligned with it, but their success creates the kind of power vacuums that ISIS can exploit, etc.)?

    6. Is the U.S. finally prepared to put aside idealistic notions that democratic aspirations drive Mideast uprisings when, in fact, sectarian issues not democracy are the fundamental drivers of the mislabeled "Arab Spring" so that the U.S. could pursue more sober but attainable foreign policy goals in the Mideast?

    Many of those questions contain economic, military, and foreign aid dimensions. Once the U.S. has determined its answers, it will need to make the resources available so that the policies can be pursued in a fashion that has a chance of success.

  9. #539
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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Jango View Post
    While President Obama can be blamed for lots of things, the withdrawal from Iraq cannot be laid at his doorstep, which is unfortunate for conservatives like yourself:



    Iraq prime minister: Immunity issue scuttled U.S. troop deal - Washington Times



    So now we're back to my original point before this side-tracking was done: what was President Obama supposed to do? Kill Maliki & install a new leader to the U.S.'s liking? Or bend over backwards to cater to & convince some moron that if we left a power vacuum would happen, which is considerably beneath the stature of a President of the United States: begging & pleading with some two-bit piece of ****, of which, if ever discovered, the lunatic fringe right-wing would be ****ING HOWLING about it.

    So again, what EXACTLY would YOU have done as POTUS if your counterpart in Iraq said no to immunity. Vague & non-specific answers like, "I'd negotiate," will be received as a non-answer and therefore another dodge.
    Most people know that is what is being reported but the question is how do you know that issue couldn't have been negotiated. It was Obama arrogance that prevented negotiation of that issue and most people know it. Obama is taking credit for ending the war in Iraq but that is what he always does, takes credit but never responsibility

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    Re: U.S. Economy Shrinks By Most Since Great Recession in 1Q

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Most people know that is what is being reported but the question is how do you know that issue couldn't have been negotiated. It was Obama arrogance that prevented negotiation of that issue and most people know it. Obama is taking credit for ending the war in Iraq but that is what he always does, takes credit but never responsibility
    Again, what would you have done?

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